basic river decision

Che · #1 08-18-2005, 02:38 PM

Stars $10 Rebuy, Blinds 75/150 (far from the money)

Folded to Hero (15785) in CO who opens for 450 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Fold, fold, BB calls (12965).

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot=975)

Check, Hero bets 700, call.

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot=2375)

Check, 1800, call.

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (Pot=5975)

Check, Hero…???

All calls and checks have been fairly quick. Villain has ~10K left. Hero has ~12.8K.

Do you value bet this or take the free showdown? What if the river is an offsuit T? A total blank (e.g. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])?

Thanks,
Che

Pasterbator · #2 08-18-2005, 02:42 PM

i check behind, because im folding to a reraise with that awful river card. If he turns up KQ, just be happy you won the hand. I think betting this river is too dangerous.

-Oz- · #3 08-18-2005, 02:48 PM

I've been actively looking for more value bet opportunities in my game lately. Nevertheless, this seems like a simple check to me. After all the draws come in, I'd be happy just to take this one down.

-Oz-

Isura · #4 08-18-2005, 02:50 PM

I bet 2000-3000 on the river. He doesn't have a 9, and the only reasonable spades he could have would be AKs (he's not calling down with A3s is he?).

If the T is offsuit, isn't that a no brainer?

Edit: And I don't think AKs plays the hand this way. He'd probably lead the flop, or check/raise push the flop.

billyjex · #5 08-18-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet 2000-3000 on the river. He doesn't have a 9, and the only reasonable spades he could have would be AKs (he's not calling down with A3s is he?).

If the T is offsuit, isn't that a no brainer?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think he's calling down with any flush draw. give these players in the $11 rebuy a deep stack and they will happily chase any decent draw.

and it's not even that bad of a move, considering implied odds.

billyjex · #6 08-18-2005, 02:50 PM

i'd be tempted, but I would still check behind. he might not even pay off a bet w/ a KQ type hand if he's scared of a straight/flush. there are a lot of players who check their made straight/flush here as well instead of betting out.. IMO it's too dangerous.

schwza · #7 08-18-2005, 03:44 PM

T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - easy check. KQ is just about the only worse hand that pays you off.

Tx - closer, but i'm still checking. JT, J9, QT, Q9 just all got there.

4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - i think this is a good time for a value bet, but a c/r is tough. a lot of 1 pair hands pay you off, but if he c/r's and you fold, you're risking folding the best hand (to his AQ/KQ). i like a bet of 2k and fold to a push.

Che · #8 08-19-2005, 10:41 AM

River was actually the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], which I thought was an obvious check behind. Villain had KQ, MHIG.

I made the post to see where to draw the line, since I am also looking for more opportunities to value bet the river.

I think we have to bet the brick, but I don't see how we can fold to a check-raise (thoughts, schwza?).

As for the offsuit T, I think it's borderline, but I probably check that one, too.

Thanks for all the replies,
Che

schwza · #9 08-19-2005, 11:12 AM

i went back and reviewed the hand, and i changed my mind - i think we have to pay off the c/r on a blank. there's some chance it's going to be QJ/T9, but i think that it will be a strangly played KQ/AQ too often to fold.

Dave D · #10 08-19-2005, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Stars $10 Rebuy, Blinds 75/150 (far from the money)

Folded to Hero (15785) in CO who opens for 450 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Fold, fold, BB calls (12965).

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Pot=975)

Check, Hero bets 700, call.

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot=2375)

Check, 1800, call.

River: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (Pot=5975)

Check, Hero…???

All calls and checks have been fairly quick. Villain has ~10K left. Hero has ~12.8K.

Do you value bet this or take the free showdown? What if the river is an offsuit T? A total blank (e.g. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])?

Thanks,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna be weak tight and say check, in either the hand that happened or if it was an offsuit T. There are some people who will play their blinds really loose passivly like this and its just best not to risk a check/raise. Last night it folded to me in the SB and I had someone call my 3x the BB raise with 48s (I had K9s) and call me all the way down to make his runner runner flush (I flopped a flush on a below T flop). He had a bigger stack than me and called two bets on the flop and turn, and called (didn't raise) my river bet.

By the way, does anyone like open limping with aces here? Depending on how I read the table, I wouldn't be surprised to get it raised back at me and then I can go tarzan, or at least make sure it gets heads up and maximize. I would only consider doing this with AA, KK, and maybe QQ here, and I know you're not supposed to give the blinds free flops but in rebuys people are crazy and I feel like there's a good chance of it going HU for a lot of chips.