30/60: KK & KK

[ALL1N]

Note the allin dude.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls $48.19 (All-In).

River: (15.55 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 16.55 BB

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This guy is one of the better TAGs. (EDIT: I should add that I don't know if this guy knows me yet. I've just started using a new nick)

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (3 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

[Tropex]

Question about H2, why not cap preflop? To keep the strength of your hand hidden ? Worst case scenario in here the second hand is AJ I suppose but you could be looking at AA, QQ or even KK here.

Anyway, I like the line, although I might just call down the river. In the other hand, I'm not qualified to comment here (only 2/4 player) so maybe you should ignore my post or maybe answer the first question. <font color="red"> &lt;3 </font>

[Trix]

I think the first is good even though you are ahead of MP a fair ammount and people sometimes bluffs in spots where the pot is protected by an allin player. I guess they may do it because they´ve seen tight players fold more often here, but it´s just very hard to put BB on something that can take the sidepot if he gets you to fold a better hand. Slowplayed counterfit QJ is the only thing that comes to mind.

The riverraise seem too much in the second, he will never fold a 6 and probably rarely pay off with a pocket pair, aside from QQ. It doesn´t mean that I think you should call the turn and raise the river as a bluff if you held a weak hand as he may hold the 6, sometimes the J and it´s a very expensive line to take on a bluff. So I dont think he would expect a bluff in this spot and will lay down if he is weaker than QQ.
I dont know how fast the game have been, but it probably matters alot in this spot.

Btw, sexy flatcall preflop, you do that alot ?

[Apocalypse]

(havent read other reply's)
Just a reminder to hand 1 imo. Making a rivercall in a big pot can't ever be really bad, where making a wrong fold for one bet can be devastating. Anyone making folds like these often have some kind of fetish for making 'superfolds'. If any thinking opponent gets aware of this, as i suspect there are a lot at this limit, he could bluffbet this river with acehigh(flushdraw) even with UTG still in, hoping UTG is just loosy goosy gambling it up on fourth street with an inside, or flushdraw. Its a bit of a gamble on his part, but myself would like a gamble here and there against foldfetish opponents(lots of twoplustwoers).

With the above info i come to hand 2, where i like your play but would urge you to call a 3-bet against a good 30/60 opponent. Cuz i hope you weren't planning to make a raise-but-fold-to-a-3-bet kind of play. Again, a good thinking opponent can pick up on you being able to make these kind of plays, and 3-bet you with any hand screaming 'jacks full' and make you fold a better hand.

In general:
I see as well the above here is my point of view. I just think these 'superfolds' some people at this forum seem so fond about are hardly worth the gain and superdangerous. If played perfect EVERY TIME they save you crums, but if wrong even once in a blue moon they cost you mountains. Plus you need excellent adjusting skills to your view of how opponents perceive you at the table. Its a lottawork imo for very few if any reaps

[aslowjoe]

Caveat, I do not play 30/60


[ QUOTE ]

Just a reminder to hand 1 imo. Making a rivercall in a big pot can't ever be really bad, where making a wrong fold for one bet can be devastating. Anyone making folds like these often have some kind of fetish for making 'superfolds'. If any thinking opponent gets aware of this, as i suspect there are a lot at this limit, he could bluffbet this river with acehigh(flushdraw) even with UTG still in, hoping UTG is just loosy goosy gambling it up on fourth street with an inside, or flushdraw. Its a bit of a gamble on his part, but myself would like a gamble here and there against foldfetish opponents(lots of twoplustwoers).

With the above info i come to hand 2, where i like your play but would urge you to call a 3-bet against a good 30/60 opponent. Cuz i hope you weren't planning to make a raise-but-fold-to-a-3-bet kind of play. Again, a good thinking opponent can pick up on you being able to make these kind of plays, and 3-bet you with any hand screaming 'jacks full' and make you fold a better hand.

In general:
I see as well the above here is my point of view. I just think these 'superfolds' some people at this forum seem so fond about are hardly worth the gain and superdangerous. If played perfect EVERY TIME they save you crums, but if wrong even once in a blue moon they cost you mountains. Plus you need excellent adjusting skills to your view of how opponents perceive you at the table. Its a lottawork imo for very few if any reaps


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a great post.

As said above I think that at 16-1 you have to call. Bluff over played QJ, info. At 16-1 even a passive player that is not thinking might take a shot on a bluff.

I love the way you played hand number 2.

Joe

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a reminder to hand 1 imo. Making a rivercall in a big pot can't ever be really bad, where making a wrong fold for one bet can be devastating.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really true at all. It's just something Ed Miller says to help new players.

Who cares whether we would have won this particular pot or not. The fold is either correct long term or it's not. That's all there is.

Krishan

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a reminder to hand 1 imo. Making a rivercall in a big pot can't ever be really bad, where making a wrong fold for one bet can be devastating.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very fuzzy thinking.

I definately wouldnt fold that river though.

[krishanleong]

posting blind.

I think the pot is too big in hand 1. I've seen wierd stuff once people went all in even though it doesn't make any sense. Maybe this disappears at high limits.

Hand 2. I've thought about this line. Never actually done it. I assume you are folding to a 3-bet? I think it's okay.

Krishan

[Jeff W]

I like hand 2.

I'd call in hand 1 unless I was sure BB was not an idiot or tricky.

[mscags]

I like the first line a lot. The second hand has me confused a little. I imagine you didn't reraise PF to disguise your hand a little. I'm also assuming you wanted to wait until the river to raise so as to not completely blow him off his hand?