30/60 set of 7s big 3 way pot.

[djk123]

full table, dealt 7s7h on the button, UTG+1(TAG) raises, folded to me, i 3 bet, sb folds, bb(from the little i've seen fairly tight pre, but will call down to the river with marginal hands.) calls, UTG+1 calls.

From what i had seen before, UTG+1's only calling my 3 bet left me 99% sure he did not have AA, KK or QQ. I have played with him before and have seen him cap QQ,KK, AA whenever he had the chance. his likely holdings, would be 88 or 99-JJ, AK,AQ, AJ maybe Ats. however given his post flop play i was certain he had to have had AK.

Now with the BB, i also would have thought he would cap AA or KK and probably QQ. Though there is a slight chance he could have called with QQ, the way he played the turn convinced me otherwise. The most logical holding for the sb in my mind was aq.

Comments street by street? too aggressive?

flop: As Qh 7d.
UTG+1 checks I bet, BB raises, utg+1 3 bets, I call, BB caps, utg+1 calls, I call.

turn: As Qh 7d Kc. UTG+1 bets, i call, BB raises, UTG+1 3 bets, I cap, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: As Qh 7d Kc 6h
UTG+1 bets, I raise, BB calls, UTG+1 3 bets, i cap, BB calls, utg+1 calls.

[elindauer]

I'd have become uneasy about the time it was 2 cold to me on the turn. You 3-bet pf, capped the flop and the board is AKQ. Why are they both atill attacking you? You hold a set, and that's normally good, but with this action, you actually hold a WEAKER hand than what they should put you on.

You just called the first bet, so you've given a bit of decection, but still, capping the turn and river here is just burning money. Your turn cap screams AA, and UTG is still attacking. Slow down.

If you won this, your opponents are terrible hand readers.

Good luck.
Eric

[djk123]

i thought about slowing down, but i just really thought i was up against AK and AQ. ah well i suck.

edit: you don't think there is anyway utg+1 has AK? also the BB slowed down right away so he most likely does not have QQ, KK, or AA.

[MarkSummers]

with two players i would slow down on the turn and most definitely on the river. you can't fold but i dont think you should be capping both streets either.

I agree that their most likely holdings are AK and AQ but QQ is a possibility from the BB and maybe even KK and AA slowplayed preflop. You have to think that AQ or AK would realize that their two pair isn't that strong given the board and the betting and slow down. Given this, one of them could have the set given they are not terrible players.

Also, what about a fold preflop?

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
you don't think there is anyway utg+1 has AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a lot of poker and seen people do all kinds of goofy things, so I would never say that there is no way anybody has anything. If he has AK though, he is a very poor hand reader. You have made it clear you have a set, and not only a set, but a set that's bigger than the one you actually have. If he's still raising two pair when you are screaming set, he's not very good.

If I give this opponent any respect, I slow down much earlier than you did. If he shows me AK, I make a note and consider putting in another raise next time.

Good luck.
Eric

[djk123]

normally i would have slowed down here but i was just acting on what i felt was a really strong read. slowing down would have probably been wiser still, despite thinking i was still ahead.

i dont know about folding given i will have position through out the hand. my 3 bet was trying to isolate against the raiser.

[MarkSummers]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know about folding given i will have position through out the hand. my 3 bet was trying to isolate against the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why you would want to isolate here. A raise from a TAG in early position seems pretty legit to me. You're only ahead against big cards AK and AQ, you're way behind to all pairs bigger. I fold here without a second thought.

Anyway, what were the hands? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[djk123]

UTG+1 had AK and BB had AQ.

but i guess i just played it bad and got lucky.

[TStoneMBD]

fold before the flop

[elindauer]

Hi djk,

I like your thought process in this hand. You put them on a range and acted accordingly. All you need to do now is et a bit better about giving some uncertainty to your hand ranges. You want to combine your preflop read with your postflop read to get a more accurate view of what they hold.

In this hand, preflop he says "I don't have AA". Postflop he says "I can beat a set of queens". Now, maybe you think he's full of [censored] when he says this postflop, but he's raising in a spot where he can't possibly think he'll win the pot without a showdown. That's powerful information that he's telling the truth.

So you have conflicting indications that you have to handle. Which is more likely? He doesn't understand that I have a set? He played AA in a tricky way? He has JTs?

As you play more hands with this guy, you start to know the answert to this question. It becomes another part of your read. Your question fundamentally is what our default guess should be here. Short answer: when your preflop read and postflop read conflict, tend to go with the latter.

Good luck.
Eric