6max Free card play?

Somekid · #1 08-15-2005, 03:52 PM

I found this hand interesting because I could have used a play that I haven't seen discussed much (maybe because it is bad). I think that I should have bet the flop since checking means the turn will definitely be bet. By betting the flop I can probably get a free look at the river. If anybody has any thoughts on this or the rest of the hand, please comment.

Also if you know of any threads discussing this play I'd love to see them.

PartyPoker - $1/$2 Hold'em - 6 players (Converter: PGC)

Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

PreFlop
UTG folds, UTG+1 RAISES, CO folds, Hero RAISES
SB Calls, BB Calls, UTG+1 Calls

...failed LAG isolation attempt

(4 players) FLOP: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 6.00 BB )
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

(4 players) TURN: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 6.00 BB )
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 BETS, Hero Calls
SB Calls, BB folds

(3 players) RIVER: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 9.00 BB )
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Final Pot:9.00 BB

@bsolute_luck · #2 08-15-2005, 04:07 PM

i think you have fold equity on this flop enough to bet and the chances of getting a free card on the turn is pretty high.

MrWookie47 · #3 08-15-2005, 04:09 PM

He's got some, but in a 4 way pot, I don't think everyone is going away often enough.

deception5 · #4 08-15-2005, 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's got some, but in a 4 way pot, I don't think everyone is going away often enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially when it's 12SB.

@bsolute_luck · #5 08-15-2005, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's got some, but in a 4 way pot, I don't think everyone is going away often enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i thought about that as my initial post was "i liked how you played this hand", but i still like following up my 3-bets with a bet [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] especially with position and the increased pot odds will allow me to continue on the turn for my 4 outer. crappy thinking? - i guess then my question would be should Hero have called the turn? he's getting 7:1 and needs 11:1 to call profitably, or are we counting on implied odds on the turn and river?

MrWookie47 · #6 08-15-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
especially with position and the increased pot odds will allow me to continue on the turn for my 4 outer. crappy thinking? - i guess then my question would be should Hero have called the turn? he's getting 7:1 and needs 11:1 to call profitably, or are we counting on implied odds on the turn and river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very crappy thinking. Betting here so you can call a bet (or bet yourself) on the turn is giving yourself much worse immediate odds, and much worse implied odds.

@bsolute_luck · #7 08-15-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Very crappy thinking

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] AHHH DARNIT!

ps: i thought the OP said "6SBs"- oops [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

okay then what about the turn call getting 7:1 immediate odds? wouldn't we need both SB and BB to call to make this profitable?

deception5 · #8 08-15-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i guess then my question would be should Hero have called the turn? he's getting 7:1 and needs 11:1 to call profitably, or are we counting on implied odds on the turn and river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a K or Q wins this some of the time as well as the gutshot. We may even have the best hand.

MrWookie47 · #9 08-15-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess then my question would be should Hero have called the turn? he's getting 7:1 and needs 11:1 to call profitably, or are we counting on implied odds on the turn and river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a K or Q wins this some of the time as well as the gutshot. We may even have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think K high is the best hand in a 4 way pot here approximately never. If we give ourselves 1 out (still somewhat generous, IMO) for K's and Q's, I guess we can take another card off on the turn.

MrWookie47 · #10 08-15-2005, 04:09 PM

If you think that by betting the flop, you can almost certainly get a free look at the river, that's the better play. However, if you bet the flop and get raised, or donked on the turn, life sucks. You're very likely behind at this point, so taking the free card on the flop isn't too bad. You have to fold the turn, though. The pot is too small for what is almost certainly a 4 out draw.