hand I played badly...need some analysis.

boondoggle · #1 08-15-2005, 01:31 AM

Here is hand that I probably misplayed. I would appreciate some feedback regarding the play

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($210)
CO ($143)
Button ($189)
SB ($237)
BB ($97)
UTG ($154)
UTG+1 ($200)
UTG+2 ($205)
MP1 ($249)
Hero ($339)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 5 folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls $12.

Flop: ($45) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $45, Hero raises to $200, UTG+2 calls $141 (All-In).

Turn: ($431) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($431) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $431

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 has 6h 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has Ah Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins $417. Hero wins $14. 

cheers
Boon

Petey Pockets · #2 08-15-2005, 01:48 AM

Pretty much just a tough spot having your aces cracked after he cold called your raise preflop. Also hard to put him on the set when he leads at you on the flop. Just tough luck. If you both had more chips you could of made a smaller raise, but in this spot it is almost impossible not to lose your money. Overall, I can't see how you misplayed this hand unless you had previous knowledge of the UTG+2 that you didn't incoorperate into your thought process.

Pockets

kurto · #3 08-15-2005, 02:05 AM

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Pretty much just a tough spot having your aces cracked after he cold called your raise preflop. Also hard to put him on the set when he leads at you on the flop.

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I don't agree. As per my response earlier, the hero pretty much told the villain that he had a high pocket pair. Villain called. Then villain bet into the reraiser (who defined his hand). He knows hero likes his hand. So... what else on that board is he doing that with?

If hero calls the bet, he should knows he's likely doing it with 2 outs.

Petey Pockets · #4 08-15-2005, 02:26 AM

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. As per my response earlier, the hero pretty much told the villain that he had a high pocket pair. Villain called. Then villain bet into the reraiser (who defined his hand). He knows hero likes his hand. So... what else on that board is he doing that with?

If hero calls the bet, he should knows he's likely doing it with 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that OP defined his hand, but if his hand was truly definied why wouldn't villain have check raised knowing that OP had an overpair that he'd surely bet on the flop. When villian leads, it appears more as a steal or feeler bet than a bet inducing a raise from the overpair.

kurto · #5 08-15-2005, 11:04 PM

I'll lead with a set most of the time. I want a big pot. And I know that most people with big pairs don't have the discipline to lay down.

Also, the villain does not want to give cheap cards in case hero has a flush draw (unlikely, considering the reraise but I've seen many reraise with AKs).

I don't see many people trying to steal on that flop into someone who reraised. Precisely because most people are going to put the hero on Aces or Kings and NOT likely to lay down.

If there were 2 pros with high level thinking ("he knows that I know that he has aces, therefore, he knows I wouldn't bet into him unless he knows I can beat aces, therefore, I can get him to lay down his aces with a bluff here") Most players are not this sophisticated.

Therefore, for MOST players, I would say that the villain has a set (as there are no obvious draws or even 2 pairs that would have raised preflop).

kurto · #6 08-15-2005, 02:02 AM

It would help alot to know your read on your opponent. Let's assume he's semi decent.... here's my thoughts-

PREFLOP) your reraise - fine. Though, if you're willing to loose your whole stack with an unimproved overpair, then raise it even more... first off, you defined your hand with your reraise but gave him just the right implied odds to call for set value... by raising more, you give him incorrect calling odds (if he's decent, he won't call if he's not getting correct odds)

THE REST) Let's say your reraise range is AA/KK/QQ and maybe AK (least likely). Keep in mind that with your reraise (unless you're a maniac) HE KNOWS WHAT YOU HAVE. If he's betting into you after you reraised, he knows he has you beat.

Further bad signs- He bet the pot which was 1/3 of his remaining stack. Again, unless he's an idiot or a habitual bluffer, he's not going anywhere.

Note: I also suspect he's playing it fast because he doesn't want anyone calling with the flush draw. Otherwise, he might have checked-raised you.

At a table with a lot of fish ($50NL), I might be willing to lose with unimproved Aces. But assuming the players are somewhat decent, you're beat here because your reraise gave away your hand.

boondoggle · #7 08-15-2005, 02:16 AM

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At a table with a lot of fish ($50NL), I might be willing to lose with unimproved Aces. But assuming the players are somewhat decent, you're beat here because your reraise gave away your hand.

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Should I just smooth call his $8 preflop raise?? Is it not better to reraise him here??

cheers
Boon

kurto · #8 08-15-2005, 10:57 PM

I take a number of things into account when deciding whether or not to reraise. Namely; stack sizes, players in the pot and position. Since you are both in early position, I think a reraise is important because you would rathar play heads up. I'm not a huge fan of the minraise... but I would raise just enough to get it heads up UNLESS you raise enough to give improper odds for the set to call.

(Note: if you you were likely to be heads up, and you were in late position AND everyone was deep stacked, I might consider smoothcalling to hide the strength of your hand.)

I think the most important thing is post flop play. Rarely do you want to lose your whole stack post flop with an unimproved pair. You have to consider your cards, his cards and what you think he puts you on.

If a player knows you are strong, and he still comes at you, you have to slow down and consider what you have, what he thinks you have and why he's still betting into you.

And for the record... we've all made mistakes like this. Its often easier to see it when you're observing then when you're in the heat of a hand (and holding on to aces).

Riposte · #9 08-15-2005, 04:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]

PREFLOP) your reraise - fine. Though, if you're willing to loose your whole stack with an unimproved overpair, then raise it even more... first off, you defined your hand with your reraise but gave him just the right implied odds to call for set value... by raising more, you give him incorrect calling odds (if he's decent, he won't call if he's not getting correct odds)

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What are some rough guidelines for a reraise that prevents a call with implied odds for flopping a set? I hope that wasn't a run-on sentence.

kurto · #10 08-15-2005, 11:10 PM

The general rule is calling any bet that is less then 10% of either players stack is good implied odds for set value.

So, to price the set out, you would have to raise more then 10% of either players stack.

If players had smaller stacks (say 50-60bb), then the reraise would be fine and hero should gladly lose his whole stack here. (and villain should fold if he's decent)

When you have 100bb stacks, you shouldn't be playing your whole stack with just a pocket pair. I would say UNLESS all the money goes in preflop, if 2 full stacks are going in, (and the players are decent) the player with just a pair is not going to take it.

Don't they say with Aces,.. you usually win a small pot or lose a big one.