Facing a turn reraise with TPTK

[arch12]

Hey guys,

What's your opinion on this hand and your suggested line.
No accurate reads on the opponents given that I had only played 10 or so hands with them, so consider me readless.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP1/Villain calls, 4 folds, <font color="red"> hero raises</font>, <font color="red">CO reraises</font>, 3 folds, Villain calls, hero calls



Dealing Flop: (10SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
villain checks, <font color="red">hero bets</font>, CO calls, villain calls



Dealing Turn: (~7BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">villain bets</font>, <font color="red">hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="red">villain reraises</font>, Hero…

[Frank Zappy]

Raises.

You just joined the table, TPTK, Villain coldcalled 2 bets PF, Push it and Make him Show it down!

He's got anything from A7, JT, 76 to K4, but you don't know him so you have to play your hand.

[W. Deranged]

I don't like this reasoning at all.

Making new players show down hands is not a good reason to spew big bets.

Just because you don't know a player doesn't mean it's likely that he's running a pure bluff or way overplaying top pair or something like that.

Note that the cold-call pre-flop could mean a connecting/speculative type hand like J10 that may have made a big hand.

The only options here in my opinion are folding the turn or calling down. You do have outs against two pair here, but it's hard to tell what those outs are (because many of your counterfeiting outs may make a boat for villain). Even if you hit a perfect card on the river (another A or K), you are not in a great position, and probably can't raise the river.

Basically, this is a standard turn situation where the odds to improve don't merit a call on their own and so you must decide whether you feel you are likely enough to be good to continue. Hence, calling the turn will necessitate also calling the river. Against an unknown with little chance of improving, getting around 13-2 or so on a call down (meaning you need to have 13% equity here), with anywhere between 0 and 11 possible outs (and the chance you're good), I probably bite the bullet and call down, but I'm not happy about it. And I'm too loose in most of these situations anyway.

Capping the turn here is spewing, plain and simple. If you cap and villain leads the river you are going to be ahead here basically none of the time. People don't (edit: usually) three-bet the turn for nothing.

[Frank Zappy]

You're folding TPTK here?

My thoughts, and I could be wrong, since you have TPTK what better time to wrestle (gain information about your opponent is the more polite way of saying it)? If you don't like the river, call it down.

At this point, it almost dosen't even matter to me what the "Result" is, if I win or lose this particular hand. In the worst case, I'll have paid for the information on my opponent and what better time then when you have TPTK?

I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

[W. Deranged]

That was a mistake. I got confused with this and another thread. Oops. I call down here but it is very marginal.

Note: fixed original post

[ropey]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is crazy. He didn't play back at you once, he played back at you twice. When he bets into on the turn, you can be pretty sure he can beat your pair of queens. And than he re-raises.

I think you have to fold.

-ropey

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is crazy. He didn't play back at you once, he played back at you twice. When he bets into on the turn, you can be pretty sure he can beat your pair of queens. And than he re-raises.

I think you have to fold.

-ropey

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't fold this readless and for 2 BB I can find out what he calls two cold with and what he gets aggressive with. That's cheaper than picking another spot to get to a showdown. And there's a reasonable chance that I'm best.

I hold the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], so I know he didn't just pick up a nut flush draw on the turn. If the 7 made a hand, I want to know that he's capable of drawing to a gutshot or a set with 3 overs on the board.

I think it's more likely he's saying that the 7 didn't help the poster and he's betting his TPTK or TPGK or pair &amp; draw (QJ, T9 or pair+flush draw). Those hands would probably play back at the poster twice since the poster is also an unknown.

I call down.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Raises.

You just joined the table, TPTK, Villain coldcalled 2 bets PF, Push it and Make him Show it down!

He's got anything from A7, JT, 76 to K4, but you don't know him so you have to play your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make him show it down?

It's quite clear to me that he is, and I find your advice to be somewhat reckless.

While I'm certainly not folding here, by no means to I feel the need to spew chips.

Folding could be an option if I knew the player. A lot of the times even with a known manaic, call down is going to be a vialabe option.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[krimson]

Call down. I would suspect the donk-bet/3-bet is a set, but if he only has 2-pair then we still have plenty of outs against him. I think the cap that was suggested here is spewing vs an unknown.

[AVF2k1]

I misread the hand so I have removed my thoughts.

/Oscar