My 2nd Biggest Losing Hand

[Student]

Posting my worst hand was so educational that I decided to post my second worse hand too. Thank You!

On 7-16 (Saturday) I had a breakthru in understanding. I played 398 hands Sat., Mon., and Tues., doing 214 hands on Tues. alone! Even though I lost a small amount on Tues., overall winnings were $5.65 in my 1/2 cents NL HE games, which averages 71 BBs/100.

Here's my second worse hand, whereby my JJ lost $1.02:

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($1.02)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ ($1.84)</font>
UTG ($1.66)
UTG+1 ($4.01)
MP1 ($1.70)
MP2 ($2.26)
CO ($1)
Button ($5.34)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.02, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.02, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB :#A500AF(Villain)/ checks.

Flop: ($0.08) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to $0.48</font>, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.38.

Turn: ($1.04) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets $0.52</font>, Hero calls $0.52 (All-In).

River: ($2.08) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $2.08

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Js Jh (two pair, jacks and sixes).
Villain has 6d 9s (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: Villain wins $2.08. </font>
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[Student]

I screwed up by hitting the submit button inadvertently. Sorry! Here's where I think I went wrong.

I was so overjoyed to have JJ in the hole (the 4th strongest opening hand in NL HE), that I simply refused to even consider what the pair of 6s on the board meant, in terms of the nuts hand!

If I'd have raised preflop, even to 4 cents, probably Villain would have folded with his 96u, and I would have made a little with my nice opening cards instead of losing alot (or maybe the guy who folded after my 10 cents flop bet would have stayed in; who knows?).

OK, so I'd bet 10 cents after the flop! I'd slow-played my JJ preflop. When Villain raised to 48 cents, he was saying he felt he had a superior hand. Both 66 on the flop,and Q on the flop, had me beat big-time, and Villain was kind enough to tell me about it! But did I have ears to hear or eyes to see? Of course not. Not this pig-headed old coot! So I ended up going all-in, losing my second biggest hand...

Dave

PS: By the way, this was the 55th hand of 83 played on Monday, the second day of my breakout period. This was the day of my most success, as I took $37.10 to $40.43. That's $3.33 net, and 201 BBs/100. I'd say I was too enthusiastic for my own good, a thing that happens with me occasionally (I wouldn't change a thing)!

[sekrah]

JJ is overrated hand in these games.. Don't fall in love with it.

Key to microlimit holdem.. RAISE PREFLOP EVERYTIME YOU ARE READY TO PLAY A POT!

If it hasn't been raised yet, and you have a hand you want to play.. RAISE IT! Every every every every every every single time!! I cannot say this enough.. This is crucial.

With the limpers ahead of you, You MUST make this atleast $0.12 to go.

[Student]

As usual, you've hit the nail right on the head, and Thank You!

[ QUOTE ]
"Key to microlimit holdem.. RAISE PREFLOP EVERYTIME YOU ARE READY TO PLAY A POT!

If it hasn't been raised yet, and you have a hand you want to play.. RAISE IT! Every every every every every every single time!! I cannot say this enough.. This is crucial."


[/ QUOTE ]
And you went on to say, because there are limpers ahead of me in the hand, the preflop raise should be significant. Good advice! This silly hand I've posted just keeps producing, and I'm gratified to have learned so much from so many 2+2 experts!

Dave

[sekrah]

They key to the raise EVERYTIME preflop, also involves firing out at the pot no matter what hits the board.

I.e. You're in the small blind with J-J, .01/.02 game.

MP1 limps, CO limps.

Add up your limpers, 2 total. Me personally, my standard raise, if action is to me with nobody limping in front of me, would be 4 BB or .08. I add 1 BB for every limper in front of me, up to a max of 7 BB total (0.14). Two limpers here, Raise to .12 (.08 + .04).

Now BB with 6-9 folds. Let's say MP1 and CO both call the raise (.10 more to them).

Flop comes Q-6-6. Pot size is .38. I like 1/3 to 1/2 pot size bet here.. Bet .15. MP1 folds. CO folds. You win the pot.

These guys are going to miss a flop like that most of the time. You have to make a solid continuation bet to push them out.

Now, if you limp in with J-J instead of raising, they have no reason to believe you are strong. You WANT them to think you are strong before the flop and the flop just made you stronger.

What's great is, you can do with ANY TWO CARDS. I'll sit there and wait a few orbits, waiting for a big hand.. All of a sudden I'll pick up something like 6-7 suited on the button with four limpers in front of me.. This is where you make the play. Build a little pot, Raise to .14. You'll get 1 or 2 limpers to come along for the ride, and they'll check to you, fire at the pot. It doesn't matter what your hole cards are.. You are looking to pick up a .30-.40 pot.

This is how you accumulate small pots at this levels and slowly accumulate wealth.

Also, if you are the preflop aggressor, you gotta be willing to fire raises back at people if they bet the flop in front of you. There's no bigger signal of strength to weak-tight players than a raise.

[Student]

VERY much appreciated!

My weakness concerns play, since I've simply read nothing about it (at least I haven't pursued reading about it, consciously)! I've bought 30 poker books, and 12 are 2+2s, and you'd think I'd learn how to PLAY poker by reading. Of course, I practice playing, and I'm learning things that work and things that don't work, from experience.

I just had a hair-raising 100 hands playing 1/2 cents NL HE on PokerStars. My luck was terrible. Mostly my hole cards were lousy, but when they were good the board didn't help me. Example: I get AA, and the guy with J6u flops the 6. He stays with me and the turn is a J. He has 2 pairs and I lose. I'm busy complimenting myself for my good play!

Finally, I get QdTd. The flop is something like 6d8dT, so I have high pair, and a 4-flush draw. I bet 20 cents, and a few stayed with me. The turn is something else, and the pot goes to maybe $2.00 (but my memory is fuzzy - I sure do remember that all three were still in against me). The turn is a diamond to complete my flush, and I go all-in. Two went all-in with me, and I had over $4 in the pot. The result was the biggest pot I've ever won, $10.75! That's 537.5 BBs we're talking about. I went from being down nearly $2.00 for the 100 hands to winning net $4.75. This is important to me, because I've been fighting to get back to $50 bankroll, and now I have $53.58.

The bad cards toughed me. I'd started with $1.00 and was losing, so I added $2.00 to the table. So my basis was then $3.00. When I continued to loss, being down $3.10 at one time, I finally changed tables. By then I'd added another $3.00. My intention was to have enough money that if a barnburner came in, and competition was great, that I'd double up into getting back in the game. Later I discovered that a fellow I had lots of info for was multitabling, but I was unaware of it then. I'm sure glad I switched!

I'll read and reread your playing advice. My first read didn't do it for me. I'll have to concentrate on it. But I shall; trust me! I know that you've stood on your head to help me, and I THANK YOU!

OK, this afternoon I get to go camping with my oldest son and his two oldest sons. This is my first camping trip in 30 years! So I'm going to hang up poker (except I'll get back to 2+2 if I get caught up with things!), and won't be back playing until Monday.

Thanks again!

Dave

[Tilt]

You need to absorb your opponent's reaction to each action you take and interpret it, in the context of your reads on the opponent.

Preflop: You did not raise. Why not? So you learned nothing about what your oponent holds from the action. He could haveany two. WHy not a 6 at this point?

Flop: He raises you on a paired board with an overcard. It is not a small raise, but is small enough that it seems to be asking for a call. What would a player like this do this with? Probably a hand that beats you.

The only hand that you beat is a pure bluff. Was he weak/passive before and is only now raising you on a flop? Does he routinely raise flops? These would be clues as to whether this was a bluff.

In any case, you have to decide on the flop whether you are ahead or behind here. You cannot proceed to call half your stack in without deciding this. And then I think its time to either fold to the raise, or go all-in. Calling is a ply I would rarely make.

Turn play: I would only check/call in this situation if I wanted to induce a bluff, i.e. I was very sure I was ahead and that the opponent would continue to spew chips with something like A high.

[Student]

[ QUOTE ]
"You need to absorb your opponent's reaction to each action you take and interpret it, in the context of your reads on the opponent."

[/ QUOTE ]
This is very good, and it's probably where I'm starting to get. I'm starting to realize that one can sit at a table and kind of secure an intuition about the different players at the table. Of course, the overriding consideration at the 1/2 cents NL HE tables I'm playing at is loose/passive behavior. Yet, even over the internet, one realizes that different players express this table behavior in an individual independent fashion.

Thank you very much for your inputs!

Dave

PS: I get lazy, sloppy, out-of-focus etc on occasion. An experienced player would know when he was starting to get like that, and would stand up, run to the other end of the house and back, whatever... Then they'd come back to the table with some freshness and enthusiasm. This hand suffered much, because of the above.

Then too, I suppose I've played less than 3,000 hands of poker in my life, so I haven't learned patterns that would protect me, even concerning elementary mistakes. Today I played 152 hands, and at an overall rate of 113 BBs/100. Even at that, I started the day with a big loss, but I played last on the 19th so I was a bit out of practice. Then too, on the 19th I played 214 hands, which is the most I've ever played. I've had days when I've won more money, but all those occasions were before my "Metamorphosis," hence they were flucks.

[Tilt]

I actually don't advocate playing these stakes for very long. You can't learn very much from them. They are only slightly removed from play money, and you won't learn much from them. Opponents will almost always call, which leads to a very different strategy than in a real game. Get into a 25NL game to improve your play.

[Student]

When I switched from freeplay to money poker, my goal was to take my $50 bankroll to $70 on 1/2 cents NL HE PokerStars. Then I would switch to 5/10 cents (nickel and dime). At first this seemed possible, as big fluctuations in my bankroll were happening. Then again, thru June I did no reading of books at all, instead focusing on reading 2+2 posts to the Beginner's Forum and poker magazines. My goals were to gather in some depth of understanding of poker at large, since I'd spent the first 67 years of my life without poker.

I came to the conclusion, in time, that I'd overstayed playing freeplay, and that I had picked up some back playing habits from the experienced, entrenched players I was playing against. Though I'd bought 30 poker books, the first 2 I picked up to read were not useful. Stuff went in one ear, and out the other. Then I focused on Ed Miller's "Getting Started in Hold'em (GSiH), really taking my time reading it. In fact, I'm still reading it!

The moment of my enlightenment is documented in my post to 2+2 (search for Metamorphosis), and makes interesting reading. I'd discussed "gaining escape velocity" and "finding the missing piece to the puzzle," and in fact it was all of this, and more, for me.

So my goals concerning reaching $70 bankroll in 1/2 cents is now replaced by $50 (my starting point, eh?). After all, I'd dropped all the way to $34.12 6-27-05, so the recovery to $50 is meaningful to me. I'll go into 5/10 cents games a bit undercapitalized, with 500 BBs (but I could add money, if pressed). I started gathering stats and thinking casually about 5/10 cents poker, perhaps a week ago. I know 5/10 cents poker will be much less loose than 1/2 cents is.

In fact, this transition will be the only large one, all the way up the limits to my own personal brickwall limit. Where this will happen I don't know, but I hope to go to 10/25 cents, 25/50 cents, 50/100 cents, $1/2, $2/4, $3/6 and $5/10 along the way (provided I learn enough by then!).

Presently I still face building my hand strength tables for head-to-head, 2 opponents, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 opponents. Then I intend to do spreadsheets to display cummulative statistics for each of these situations (example: which hands do I open with so overall I enter 20% of hands, 25% etc).

Why am I talking like this? Because I could be at $50 with my bankroll early next week, given the blistering pace I set winning this last week! So I'm in a replanning mode today...

Dave

PS: What is a 25NL game?