wsop me hand for review + tourney report (long)

[Che]

I told myself I wouldn’t post a tourney report since I didn’t take notes during the ME, and my memory is fuzzy in numerous spots due to the fact that I was pretty overwhelmed by it all (since it was my first time playing live). I also decided not to post any of the few hands I do remember since they were all basically uninteresting.

But, this one hand keeps bugging me so I’m going to post it. In giving my reads on the hand, I was basically doing a mini-report so I decided to beef it up just a little and make it a full blown report consisting of two parts: this post, which discusses my tourney up to the critical moment in the hand that is bugging me, and a second post to follow with the rest of the story.

Much like this introductory section, this post is longer than it really needs to be [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img], so feel free to skip directly to the hand if you don’t like tourney reports (or if you're expecting one as good as colson or MBE's).

I think there are some lessons to be learned from the hand, but I’m mostly just posting it to get it off my mind. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Background

MP opens (limp/raise? don’t remember) on about the fifth hand of the tournament. Prior hands were all open-raise, fold, fold, fold, so everyone still has T10,000. I reraise A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button. He calls. Flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-rag [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]-offsuit rag. He checks, I bet, he calls. Turn is a blank – offsuit 9 or something. He checks, I bet, he calls. River is a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. He leads 2000 at the nearly 10K pot. I have ~5300 left. I raise all-in and he thinks a *long* time before finally folding.

I don’t think he was grandstanding as he seemed genuinely upset that he eventually had to fold, and I noticed a few times later that he was glaring at me when nothing was really happening. Not sure if he had a smaller flush or a poorly played set.

Blinds 50/100: I raise an EP limper to 400 with AQ and MP from the previous hand calls all-in with JTo (not a misprint - his stack was 4 black chips). Others fold. I flop a Q, but he runner-runners a four-flush. This is my first showdown.

Later, I’m up to ~17,000 when CO open-raises and button calls. I reraise KK in the BB. CO thinks for a little while then pushes. Button folds, I call. Villain’s AA holds up [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] and I’m back where I started with 10,100. I’m 0 for 2 on showdowns.

I’m down to ~8500 when villain with AA from previous hand limps or raises (not sure) in the CO and button raises. Button is the best player at the table. He has been the most aggressive player at the table and has built a stack of around 20K with minimal risk. I have been the only one who has consistently played back at the button’s aggression (not because I’m a stud or anything – I’ve just had lots of opportunities since he’s in LP when I’m in the blinds and I’ve picked up some hands) so I decide to raise him again, rather than trapping, since I’ve been reraising him so often and he might decide to fight back.

CO folds and button thinks a while and then calls. Flop is Kxx. I lead 2000 of my remaining 7000 at the ~3800 pot and he instapushes. I instacall my AA (obviously) and my hand holds up against his AK. 1 for 3 at showdown and I’m back in business.

Soon thereafter, I raise KQ in LP and get a caller in the blinds. He leads the Qxx flop, I raise, he calls. The second (and final) turn card of the day for which neither I nor my opponent is all-in is a K. Check, I bet, he calls. River is a 3-flush Q. I think he checked (but he might have bet small) and then folded to my bet/raise.

Otherwise, I picked up a lot of pots with preflop raises. When I was called, I fired a continuation bet 80%+ of the time, and I took down the pot nearly every time.

I’m happy to say that one of the few times that I didn’t fire a continuation bet was on a Kxx flop after I had reraised AJ in position. I checked behind on the flop, and folded to my opponent’s turn push for slightly more than the pot (turn was a blank). He flashed a K before mucking his cards and asked me if I had QQ. LOL. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

At the dinner break, I was up to 27K and change and was my table chip leader. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] And that brings us to…

THE HAND

Blinds 250/500/a50

UTG opens for 2000. His stack is in the high 20’s, maybe low 30’s.

UTG has been at the table since the day began so he has seen all of the above hands. I’m sure he doesn’t remember all the details, but I know that he respects my raises and sees me as a solid holdem player despite the fact that I’m obviously not an experienced live player. UTG is a solid, mostly ABC player from LA. Average looking white guy around 30.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the CO. I’m down to around 23K at this point thanks to a check-raise with AJ on an Jxx flop against a guy who I was pretty sure had a big pair even before the flop. Sigh. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] My one and only "big laydown" of the tourney.

Anyway, I decide to just call since I doubt that he is raising UTG with a hand that can’t stand a raise. Folded to BB who thinks quite a while before calling.

BB has only been at the table for a couple of orbits. Short, muscular Asian kid wearing a sleeveless shirt. I thought he would sit down and try to run the table (stereotype – I should be ashamed [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]), but he had been very tight. No other read.

Flop is Txx rainbow with one [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

BB leads 3000 into the pot of around 6750. About 12K behind. I was rather confused about this, but I had a while to think about it since UTG was obviously confused, too. After considerable thought, UTG minraises.

He had only minraised once all day. He called with JJ in the blinds. Check-called a Jxx flop. Check-minraised a blank turn then led the river. Otherwise, he always made normal sized raises.

My initial reaction was that BB was making a probe bet, and UTG’s minraise didn’t seem right - it had a very different feel from the JJJ minraise. I almost said raise, but I caught myself and decided to check my chip count first. I had around 21K with 15,750 already in the pot.

If I had had a deeper stack, I would have raised because I would have had room to fold if UTG came over the top (but I would have been pot-commited if BB had a set…or an overpair he couldn’t fold).

If I had been shorter, it would have been an easy fold since I wouldn’t have had enough FE to make the move.

As it was, I felt I was in limbo – enough chips to have FE but I would have to commit my whole stack to execute the bluff. Or would I?

What would you have done?

Results and other stuff to follow in the morning.

Later,
Che

[MLG]

That is a gutsy read based play. In my memory i have never pulled a reraise a bet and raise with air play. To make the play you have to push here, and i think you have the perfect stack size for that. Its a squeeze play on the flop instead of preflop I guess. Its a great spot, but i wouldnt have enough guts to do it if i sat and thought about it, but my best bluffs come when i dont let that part of my mind get involved.

Sounds to me like thats what happened to you...you found the spot, talked yourself out of it and then watched A10 and JJ check it down. Its a sign of a pretty advanced poker mind to even spot the chance for that play in the first place.

[sirio11]

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Its a sign of a pretty advanced poker mind to even spot the chance for that play in the first place.

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Totally agree with this statement.

[Che]

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Quote:
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Its a sign of a pretty advanced poker mind to even spot the chance for that play in the first place.


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Totally agree with this statement.

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Thanks for the kind words, guys. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Benal]

UTG's minraise is fishy, and you still have 21K. I fold and put that stack to use in a better spot.

[Firefly]

I think your hand is a clear fold. You have a good stack behind, and I think the way you played your hand preflop makes this a fold.
A solid UTG raiser is probally raising AA-JJ(maybe TT) and AK(maybe AQs). I think we can rule out AQ from his hand range. I also don't believe that the miniraise from UTG indicates overcards. I'd say it's more likely that he has QQ (because KK and AA are less likely because you have AK). Simply, it's not a play a solid player is making w/ overcards
BB could have something from T9s or even 88 or a small pocket that as you said is making a probe bet. You probally have 6 clean outs against BB - but UTG has you beat.
So in conclusion you have A-high - it's a bet and a raise to you- fold.

[M.B.E.]

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A solid UTG raiser is probally raising AA-JJ(maybe TT) and AK(maybe AQs). I think we can rule out AQ from his hand range.

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I don't agree that we can rule out AQ. The guy had 60xBB in his stack; with AQo UTG raising has to be a better play than either limping or folding. It wouldn't surprise me if he had raised AJo or ATs either, although that's debatable. Perhaps 99 or 88.

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I also don't believe that the miniraise from UTG indicates overcards. I'd say it's more likely that he has QQ (because KK and AA are less likely because you have AK). Simply, it's not a play a solid player is making w/ overcards

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But why would the UTG solid player make that minraise with QQ? Surely if UTG has QQ he would make a larger raise than that; otherwise the flop bettor is getting great implied odds to draw to a five-outer.

In fact the minraise by UTG would be a terrible play if he holds QQ, because in addition to letting BB draw cheaply, it lets Che in cheaply and doesn't really define Che's hand (for UTG) if Che stays in.

If UTG has AA then the flop minraise would not be terrible (because now he doesn't mind so much if Che calls) but still I think a larger raise would be better.

What are the legitimate reasons that UTG would minraise?

The primary one would be to get to a showdown relatively cheaply. Thus UTG might very well make the play with a hand like AQ -- he figures that BB might be on a total bluff in which case the AQ is good, but BB probably has one pair or something like that, and instead of trying to knock him off that hand (which might be impossible), UTG wants to slow him down and hopefully catch an ace or a queen, but even then knowing it might have made BB two pair. This kind of play makes a lot of sense for UTG if he has AQ, especially because the table has earlier seen him minraise with a set, so now when he minraises it really ought to slow down his opponents. For similar reasons the play makes sense if UTG has 99 or 88.

The second reason for UTG to minraise is if he really did flop a monster like top set. But if that's the case I think he'd be better off smoothcalling the flop bet and hoping that Che decides to raise behind him.

But I'm not saying that I "read" UTG as having one of those hands; I'm just saying that those are the hands with which I think it would be correct for UTG to make that play. So from Che's perspective, I think we'd have to put UTG on a broader range of hands than that, because UTG might be making an incorrect play.

[Che]

My read of the minraise was similar to yours, M.B.E.

I thought he would call AA or a set or make a real raise with KK-JJ. The minraise seemed to be an attempt to buy the pot cheaply if both opponents were weak while still allowing him to get away easily if either opponent came over the top.

I think it was an excellent play since he would "know" he was beaten if someone reraised while he would sometimes win it right there and often get one (or even two) free cards when behind.

Later,
Che

[billyjex]

you needed to give UTG more credit on that flop. the only hand he is folding is AK -- he's calling you with everything else he raised.

bummer.

[MLG]

I think he is folding all overpairs. wouldn't you?