Aces, the river pairs the board, and I check/raise...

MrWookie47 · #1 07-12-2005, 10:46 AM

Reads: Sorry, folks, not much. I have less than a dozen hands on both villains. It was pretty obvious that they were both likely to be loose (40-50 VPIP, FWIW), but I didn't have much of anything on their postflop play.

Party Poker (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 6 SB)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 4.5 BB)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 10.5 BB)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises...

bozlax · #2 07-12-2005, 10:55 AM

And? You counterfeited his 76s two-pair by pairing the 3s and then got struck by FPS? Personally I donk-bet this river, expecting Villan to raise so I can 3-bet, but that's probably a po-TAY-toe/po-TAH-to thing in terms of EV.

If you put him on a queen and think he puts you on AK or an underpair or something, then it's a good play, but I don't think you can infer that much information from the number of hands you've seen.

Oooft. Did he have 54?

imported_The Vibesman · #3 07-12-2005, 11:01 AM

What did you put BB on when he raised the turn? Just curious, as you're not sweating the str8 draw or the trips much.
Not a bad play if you think you have the best hand, but I guess, why? MP3 coldcalled two on the turn, if you 3bet, there's the other bet from each player that your river checkraise gives you, plus the chance that BB will cap and MP2 calls. I'm just wondering what the thought process was.

jrz1972 · #4 07-12-2005, 11:06 AM

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What did you put BB on when he raised the turn?

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Any queen?

This would be a completely routine play for many villains, who think they're being tricky by waiting to pop the turn after I bet with my unimproved overcards. This time I really have the goods, so I want to punish this line. The river is a little fancy, but I still like it as a nice change of pace.

MrWookie47 · #5 07-12-2005, 11:24 AM

You think a default 2/4 player will raise this turn with any Q? I guess it's possible, but I think that two pair or a slowplayed set is far more likely.

jrz1972 · #6 07-12-2005, 11:32 AM

I don't play 2/4 so I guess I can't really answer that.

At lower levels I would expect the turn raise to just be a Q most of the time. Of course villain *could* have a set or *could* have a straight, but I think that's giving my loose opponent way too much credit at this point.

johnc · #7 07-12-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play 2/4 so I guess I can't really answer that.

At lower levels I would expect the turn raise to just be a Q most of the time. Of course villain *could* have a set or *could* have a straight, but I think that's giving my loose opponent way too much credit at this point.

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I'm really not liking this line due to the fact the donks do get decent hands more than once in a while and hit the flop. Not that I'm giving them credit for superb pre or post flop play however they generally play two pairs or sets in this fashion, in my experience.

imported_The Vibesman · #8 07-12-2005, 11:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You think a default 2/4 player will raise this turn with any Q? I guess it's possible, but I think that two pair or a slowplayed set is far more likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at .5/1, and usually the turn raise here means set, or the str8, maybe two pair. Most players at the lower level will go ahead and raise the flop w/o waiting for the turn when they make top pair.

MrWookie47 · #9 07-12-2005, 11:41 AM

That has been my experience at all levels I've played at (.50/1-2/4). Occasionally I've run into an opponent who'll wait to raise an A (@ 6max, I think), but I don't think I can recall an opponent who's waited to raise a naked Q like this. It's not unreasonable, though. One look into my designated NC thread will show you all manner of unusual things that some players will do, and waiting to raise a Q is far less unreasonable than any of the stuff in there.

McGahee · #10 07-12-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You think a default 2/4 player will raise this turn with any Q? I guess it's possible, but I think that two pair or a slowplayed set is far more likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at .5/1, and usually the turn raise here means set, or the str8, maybe two pair. Most players at the lower level will go ahead and raise the flop w/o waiting for the turn when they make top pair.

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Yeah, I don't know where this notion comes from of lower limit players having bigger balls on the expensive streets.
One of the reasons .5/1 is so soft IMO is that they're so damn predictable - a turn raise/CR is almost always a monster - 2-pair minimum. I've seen people raise a lot more marginal stuff on 4th street since my brief stint at 2/4.