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#1
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I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
9 handed. I have 88 in MP. Also, I am playing higher than my comfort level.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, I only call with the 8's, button raises, SB folds, BB calls. 5 to the flop. Flop is 625r and BB bets out, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, I call (I am planning on raising a good turn card and also seeing what the PFR's and BB's action is on the flop, and button only calls. Turn is a 7 giving me the OE straight, but unfortunately, it's now checked to me, so there goes the turn raise. I bet. All call. River is a K. Checked to me, I check to PFR on button, he bets, all fold. I make the crying call and lose to the rivered K. Questions: Does my not raising the flop cost me this pot? (I'm thinking the raiser calls anyway if he was willing to call a BB on the turn with K high and 2 people to act after him.) Even though it appears AK got there, my crying river call is a must closing the action on a 13.25BB pot, no? Sorry if this hand is somewhat standard, but as I said it was higher than I usually play and I felt like I had a chance at winning this somehow if I had played the hand differently. Thanks, Nigel |
#2
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
If it's me, I am raising the flop. I don't see how the button can call 2 bets with AK on the flop, and the fact of the matter is that very few turn cards won't be scary. Get your money in while you have the best hand.
I like the call on the river, especially since everyone else folded. If it's checked to him, he bets and gets called before you, a fold makes sense, but in this situation you call with a pot that size. ChewyMint |
#3
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from the
you must raise the flop, your hand is way too vulnerable to wait until the turn
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#4
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from the
I don't disagree that raising the flop is best, but unless the pre-flop raiser is folding (I am wondering if he would have) I don't see any way to protect my hand here on the flop. Nobody is folding for 1 additional small bet. Doesn't that change things in this hand?
Nigel |
#5
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from the
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is folding for 1 additional small bet. Doesn't that change things in this hand? [/ QUOTE ] Correct, but the PFR would have to call 2 bets cold with just two overs in this spot. He may call one bet to close the action, but calling two with people left to act won't happen very often. ChewyMint |
#6
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
you played it good. i like a thin river value bet if this was an internet game, because ppl will call with any pair and maybe AQ (fold is someone raises). the PFRs turn call with KQ is quite bad and you got unlucky.
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#7
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from the
[ QUOTE ]
the PFRs turn call with KQ is quite bad [/ QUOTE ] How so? Looks to me like he's got 6 pretty decent outs in a biggish pot. Being reverse dominated seems like a silly concern and no one has given you any reason to believe they have more than a pair. |
#8
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from the
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] the PFRs turn call with KQ is quite bad [/ QUOTE ] How so? Looks to me like he's got 6 pretty decent outs in a biggish pot. Being reverse dominated seems like a silly concern and no one has given you any reason to believe they have more than a pair. [/ QUOTE ]there is 5way action, there is a bunch of straight (coordinated for 2p) cards on the board, there are three live hands behind him, any of which may be checkraising (especially the BB)... HU w/pos this call would be real marginal, unless he thought the guy was reeally full of it and was thinking Khigh showdown... in this spot, the call is awful. id give him ~2.5 outs and say hes gonna get CRed by BB half the time. |
#9
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
If villian has what we think he has, two overs, a flop call for one bet is super easy, whether he's closing the action or not. If you raise, however, he'll be getting 7:1 on the call. Given implied odds, this is still good enough, but your raise might make him believe that his outs are no good, and he may fold. The bottom line on the flop is you can't force him to make a mistake w/out raising, and waiting for the turn assumes a lot of variables.
After you just call, and so does everybody else, the turn starts with 7bb, your bet makes it 8. Given the action villian can probably safely assume that his overs are good, and 8:1 is more than enough, especially if you're willing to pay off when he hits. Again, you arn't forcing a mistake. The short of it is raise the flop, give him a chance to make an error. lf |
#10
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
You are welcome to keep calling with AK in my games with various other players doing the betting on a 6-5-2-7 board. Do you think you have six nut outs (even that would be somewhat close given that you are not closing the action)?
lars |
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