I think this might be a chronic leak

blackize · #1 07-06-2005, 03:24 PM

I always bet rivers like this even though I know someone has AJ or AQ and has me beat. Would it be better to check fold in situations like this?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds.

Turn: (7 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15 BB

slavic · #2 07-06-2005, 03:31 PM

I like how this was played. nh

krimson · #3 07-06-2005, 03:32 PM

Weaker hands will (probably) fold to the ace and better hands will (probably) raise. This is a situation where it would be better to check/call the river.

check/folding this river would be a bad idea, you may be inducing bluffs.

jskills · #4 07-06-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Weaker hands will (probably) fold to the ace and better hands will (probably) raise. This is a situation where it would be better to check/call the river.

check/folding this river would be a bad idea, you may be inducing bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I stand on this too. Especially when you're up against 2 opponents.

slavic · #5 07-06-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Weaker hands will (probably) fold to the ace and better hands will (probably) raise. This is a situation where it would be better to check/call the river.

check/folding this river would be a bad idea, you may be inducing bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I stand on this too. Especially when you're up against 2 opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

My general thought versus looser players which I assign to most of the lower limit games, is "bet the river they want to call". If they rivered me that's fine, but in general I expect many more hands that you beat call in this protected pot, than bet if you check. With a protected pot they won't bluff quite so often.

lil feller · #6 07-06-2005, 03:34 PM

This is a tough spot, but check/folding to a river like this is worse than bad, its horrible. It really depends on the type of player your against, and if you aren't sure, you should bet.

If your opponents are relatively loose/passive they'll call with a lot of hands you beat, any Q or J, for instance, and maybe an underpair. Of course if they have an ace they'll call as well, and that sucks, but it happens. Against aggro opponents who are capable of raising this river w/out an Ace, just check and call. Let them think their Q is good. sometimes you'll get shown an ace, but again, that happens. What you don't want to do is muck a pot for one bet heads up against an unknown.

If the pot is multiway and its 2 bets to you, that changes things (like it did in this hand), but generally when you get to the river w/ KK, you're showing it down against your average SS online player. If he spiked an ace, good for him, but don't make a pot sized mistake in spots like this.

lf

Azhrarn · #7 07-06-2005, 03:35 PM

I don't think bet/fold here is a leak. Bet/call might be. But absent good reads on MP1 and MP2, I think one bet needs to go in on the river.

The advantage of checking here is that you can fold with a clear conscience if it's two back to you. But I think your hand is strong enough that you need to call this river for one bet, even if it's an overcall. Too many players like to bet scare cards on the river, and all the caller is saying is he has some piece of the board. (This is assuming you check, MP1 bets, MP2 calls. If both you and MP1 check and MP2 bets, that's an even stronger case for calling.)

blackize · #8 07-06-2005, 03:40 PM

Thanks guys. I guess the general concensus is to check/call here.

It turns out that they had exactly what I thought just like they usually do.

MP1 had A2 for the full house and MP2 had AJ.

lil feller · #9 07-06-2005, 03:48 PM

Two good things to take out of this

1. you didn't get rivered

2. MP1 is HORRIBLE be sure to add him to your buddy list.

lf

bigalt · #10 07-06-2005, 04:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]

2. MP1 is HORRIBLE be sure to add him to your buddy list.

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know that he's missing out on so much value by calling. Raising risks driving out the other players before they have a chance to catch something, and could get hero's AK, TT, or JJ to fold. The most outs anybody has against him is 2, unless they have QQ.