Why Do Jews Reject Jesus?

David Sklansky · #1 07-05-2005, 11:34 PM

I'm not heading anywhere with this. I am just curious. Their reason can't be the same as agnostics obviously. Or even the same as members of a religion that don't predict a messiah. So what is the official reason that present day religious Jews, who think that the messiah will one day appear, give as to why that messiah was not Jesus?

brassnuts · #2 07-05-2005, 11:48 PM

Does there have to be an official reason? He was crucified by Jews for claiming he was the messiah 2000 years ago. Of course, Christianity has spread since then, but for what reason along the way would Judaism have adopted the notion that he was the actually the messiah?

bossJJ · #3 07-06-2005, 07:32 AM

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He was crucified by Jews for claiming he was the messiah 2000 years ago.

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This is just plain wrong. The Jews never crucified anybody. It was not a method used by Jews to execute criminals. In any case, claiming that you're the messiah (even when wrong) is not a sin or crime in Judaism.

The Romans did crucify thousands of Jews and others, but I don't think they crucified Jesus because there's no credible evidence that the guy even existed. No one from his alleged life time ever heard of him. There is nothing written about him from his alleged lifetime. All ancient documents that refer to him were written from about 50 to hundreds of years after his alleged death. All they prove is that Christians existed by that time. If some of the claims in the Greek Testament had really happened, someone would have noticed. There were several Jewish, Greek and Roman writers and others who wrote stuff about Israel during Jesus' alleged lifetime, but no one said anything about Jesus. So most likely he didn't exist. If he did, he was a nobody that no one noticed. More about this: jesuspuzzle

David Sklansky · #4 07-06-2005, 07:53 AM

Bottom line is that Jews believe that Jesus didn't fit the criteria that the Old Testament set up for the messiah. I thought the reason might be more logical or scientific. Instead it is nonsense. The Old Testament is nonsense. There neither was nor will there ever be a messiah. At least 95% of math and physics and probably chemistry Phds from the top ten universities agree with me. In spite of the fact that probably 25% are Jewish. And I don't mean they will simply say that to avoid criticism from their peers. The smarter you are the harder, it is to allow yourself to believe silliness as nice as it might be if it was true. Remember how in Beautiful Mind, Nash used pure thought (they are not getting older) to deduce his hallucinations were just that. Same goes for the most brilliant mathmeticians and scientists regardless of their upringing.

As for orthodox Jews who actually believe this stuff, (612 mitzvahs vs 7 etc) they are at least as nuts as Catholics.

[censored] · #5 07-06-2005, 09:03 AM

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Bottom line is that Jews believe that Jesus didn't fit the criteria that the Old Testament set up for the messiah. I thought the reason might be more logical or scientific. Instead it is nonsense. The Old Testament is nonsense. There neither was nor will there ever be a messiah. At least 95% of math and physics and probably chemistry Phds from the top ten universities agree with me.

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So the other 5% are not good at their job, in your opinion? Doesn't that have to be the logical conclusion from your above statement.

Malachii · #6 07-11-2005, 06:09 AM

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So the other 5% are not good at their job, in your opinion? Doesn't that have to be the logical conclusion from your above statement.

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I fail to see how A implies B.

KingMarc · #7 07-06-2005, 01:00 PM

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As for orthodox Jews who actually believe this stuff, ( 613 mitzvahs vs 7 etc) they are at least as nuts as Catholics.

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FYP

KingMarc · #8 07-06-2005, 01:21 PM

Anyway, I've skimmed through most of the posts. And I'll say what I believe.

As David said, much of the Torah / Old Testament comes down to reading comprehension. However, I don't see how this is nonsense. If you strongly believe in something, then you feel that what you believe in is correct, and thus what others believe in is wrong. You and others call the Torah / Old Testament nonsense, and that the stories never happened. Likewise, I believe this thought is nonsense, and that they did happen.

Do I believe the red sea split to allow the Israelites to pass? Yes I do. Does this seem logical from today's perspective of life? Obviously not. Likewise, five thousand years ago, basic technology of today would have seemed equally unlikely. You may say that technology is just a form of evolution, and that the splitting of the sea is a freak occurance that is impossible to occur. To that I reply, it's what our individual beliefs are. While I obviously feel your belief is wrong, and mine is right, you likewise feel the opposite. However, I feel that at this stage we are all entitled to our beliefs, and that is what God intended.

This stems down to the Messiah. I again feel that when the Messiah comes, whether it be in 240 or so years (Herew year 6000) or in 2000 years, that by some method, all humanity will believe in Judaism and in God. (I'd like to point out that God is One...the Messiah will not be His son, likewise Moses was not a God, and we do not prey to him). Again, you may feel that it will be impossible for everyone to recognize all this, but if the disease, hunger, and everything cynical in society ends..people will recognize the power that God has.

End note: I am just a college student. I am not a Rabbi, nor someone who has studied this in depth. I have however taken numerous classes in this subject matter, and have been brought up this way since I was born. I have studied it, questioned it, looked at alternatives, but in the end it is what I believe in.

Peter666 · #9 07-07-2005, 01:51 AM

"The Old Testament is nonsense. There neither was nor will there ever be a messiah. At least 95% of math and physics and probably chemistry Phds from the top ten universities agree with me."

Perhaps 95% of the top scientists agree with you, but certainly not the top philosophers and metaphysicians. Science is limited to observation and experiment in the natural realm. It is not meant to provide the last word on truth, unless of course one makes Science their religion.

Spiritual concepts are above the natural realm, so to use the opinions of natural scientists as the last word on spiritual matters would be like me asking an unread car mechanic about his opinion on Shakespeare. Who cares? However, I would be happy to ask him about my leaking radiator.

David Sklansky · #10 07-07-2005, 02:36 AM

"Perhaps 95% of the top scientists agree with you, but certainly not the top philosophers and metaphysicians."

I picked mathmeticians and scientists because thy are simply the most intelligent. Intelligence as defined by the words "able to use deduction and cleverness to get to indisputable truths quickly and without screwwing up. That definition is the best one to use because whether God exists is not a matter of opinion as hard as proving it may be. He either does or he doesn't. Perhaps I should have confined my point to mathmeticians only since a case could be made that physicists have a vested interest in no God. All mathmeticians care about is knowing the truth whatever that may be.