Was Stu Ungar really a great poker player?

[Smoothcall]

I was reading a old cardplayer where Mike Sexton was discusisng how great Stu Ungar was. That he was the best ever. And we have heard this from many people. My question is how much is truth, and how much is urban legend?

I mean i don't know his whole life as a card player but this is what i do know. He won the main event in 80 and 81 i think. then there's a huge gap where he didn't make the final table unitl he won in 97. One year in the early to mid 90's he just missed the final tv table coming in 8th i think. I think it was the year Matloubi won.

Ok so what does this mean? Well i don't know exactly but it makes me wonder if he was as great as he was built up to be. I mean what happend through all those years in between? And what about otehr wsop event thorugh all those years? Did he play them? Did he play the main event every year through the 80's and 90's? How come he doesn't have aton more bracelets for other events? How many does he actually have?

Now lets discuss his live game? This i don't know too much about other than hearing through the years that he was a fish in big live games. Now i don't know how true this was or if it was only if he played when he was intoxicated in some fashion. But If he is the greates poker player of all time like he is percieved to be. He should have crushed the big games. And why was he broke all the time? I know he had a drug and gambling problem. But if he was the greatest poker play of all time you think he would still have a few bucks in his pocket from beating every poker game he played.

I wonder how Barry Greenstein would rate him? Would he be considered one of the tournament players that gets famous but was drawing dead in his game? Or would he say Stuey was the best or one of the best? Maybe he has commented and someone will give me that answer. What about Doyle and chip? I wonder if they laughed through the years hearing about stuey getting all the fame but they collected all his money in the big games. While they hear talk about how he was the greatest and everybody else was in a different league. Was Stu Ungar the greatest of all time? Or was he the Gus Hansen of the 80's and 90's?

[ClaytonN]

Dude, you have easily been a member here for more than a year and a half. Search the archives, this topic has been covered infinitum.

[Smoothcall]

Well i did not see it. So i'm making a post that i would like to discuss. Is that ok dude?

[Blackdirt12]

The man is on record to have won ten of the thirty major tournaments he entered over his lifetime.

[Paul Phillips]

[ QUOTE ]
The man is on record to have won ten of the thirty major tournaments he entered over his lifetime.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be "on record" as in "totally unverifiable claim that is wildly more likely to be false than true, but has been repeated so many times that it has become gospel in the minds of many."

Or, conversely, you have someone in mind who knows for certain exactly which tournaments he entered and didn't cash.

People are such suckers.

[nolimitpro2005]

Barry G has talked about Stuey's amazing reads and how there are no 'amazing fold' stories. That's pretty interesting if you think about it. Also, Doyle has said he was incapable of winning if he ever got top pair cracked. (paraphrasing)

I've been something of a skeptic regarding him as well. Great players, though, can beat ring games and have excellent discipline .. I've never heard of him having those skills.

[pokergripes]

That's a good point about the laydowns...although, I'm not sure that folds get the same attention. Are there "huge fold" stories about other top pros? I'm not thinking of any...

[Paul Phillips]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a good point about the laydowns...although, I'm not sure that folds get the same attention. Are there "huge fold" stories about other top pros? I'm not thinking of any...

[/ QUOTE ]

A "huge call" is always seen and a huge fold may never be known, but any huge fold discussion should include this one.

This is the pivotal hand in the TOC. Chiu, is dealt Kc-Ks and Asmo receives Ac-As. Yet, we don't see a flop! David, on the button, thinks for approximately 20 seconds and raises to $75,000 after Lynn Bauer limps in under the gun. Asmo ponders his move for 14 seconds, looks at the dealer, pushes his checks forward, and says, "All in." Doyle Brunson folds from the big blind position. Bauer mucks quickly. Chiu is studying Asmo's $600,000 and playing with 18 blue ($500) chips. He keeps separating them into four piles (4-4-4-2), then restacking them. We're nearing two minutes. His left hand is on his chin. Asmo continues to look straight ahead over his bifocals. Suddenly and gently, Chiu taps his defeated hand on the table and mucks it face up! Remarkably, he concludes that Asmo has him covered with pocket aces.

The crowd is bewildered when they see David's black kings. The plot crystallizes when Asmo smiles and reveals his black aces.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry G has talked about Stuey's amazing reads and how there are no 'amazing fold' stories.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't jibe - if you have amazing hand-reading capabilities, you'd be making great laydowns all the time.

[pokergripes]

Uh oh, I sense a "captain obvious" reply coming... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]