Aces cracked - Avoidable?

[321Mike]

Playing .50/1 at Party Poker today I was dealt AA. I was on the button and the table was somewhat loose (4-5 to the flop usually) and very passive. I get 5 limpers in front of me, I raise, and the blinds and all the limpers call to make it 8 to the flop. At this point I'm regretting the raise because I know with this huge pot (16 small bets already) the whole table is going to chase every draw imaginable. Should I have limped to keep the pot from getting this big? Or is my pot equity just too good to pass up the raise?

The flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Everybody checks to me and I bet. I knew almost everybody would call for 1 bet given the size of the pot, but I didn't want to give a free card. Should I have checked and waited for the bigger bet on the turn card? Or is my pot equity still too good to pass up a raise?

I get two folds and 5 calls. The turn is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which puts 2 spades on the board. Everybody checks. I bet. 3 calls and 2 folds. The river is J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The big blind bets and I know I'm done for. Everybody calls and he shows the 5 and 7 of spades for the flush.

I'm going with the idea that I played this one OK because in this type of pot my aces only have to hold up about 1 in 5 times for me to make money. But, I would really like to know if there was some way for me to protect my hand a little better.

[irishpint]

this is a hard post to respond to since you dont know how to play poker. examples

"i'm regretting the pf raise (with AA)"
"should i have checked through the flop and waited until the turn to bet?"
"i raised the flop and raised the turn" (no, you bet the flop and turn)

you should play 1 cent/2 cent or something.

[GTSamIAm]

Bet bet bet. Raise raise raise. Why do you want to check aces. That's super weak-tight. I'm also guessing if I asked you how much water is in the glass, you'd say it's half-empty. Be more optimistic against bad players.

EDIT: When I said bet bet bet raise raise raise, I'm not talking about the river. Correct river play is often counterintuitive and opposite of other streets.

[Greg J]

This might be a little harsh. He came across to me as just VERY inexperienced and unsure of himself, not as imcompetent or completely clueless.

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"i raised the flop and raised the turn" (no, you bet the flop and turn)

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So he used the wrong verb, an indication of an inexperienced player. This is just being nit picky. Occasionally I will still say raise when I meant bet.

[irishpint]

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This might be a little harsh. He came across to me as just VERY inexperienced and unsure of himself, not as imcompetent or completely clueless.

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"i raised the flop and raised the turn" (no, you bet the flop and turn)

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So he used the wrong verb, an indication of an inexperienced player. This is just being nit picky. Occasionally I will still say raise when I meant bet.

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ok, using the wrong word is no big deal. but how can you say he was not completely clueless? he didnt want to raise pf with Aces because it would create a big pot and the flop came 3 suits, all garbage and he wanted to check it through!!

[Greg J]

I can chalk this up to thinking too much. Why not raise AA preflop? You can manipulate the size of the pot, keeping it small to properly protect yr hand on later streets. Is this correct? No. Does it have some logic behind it? Certainly.

He wants to check through the flop. Bad idea? Yes. This seems like a misapplication of the idea of forgoeing an advantage on one street to take advantage of one on another. Wrong? Certainly. Does it demonstrate that Mike is clueless about poker? No necessarily. It demonstrates that he is very inexperienced, and misapplying concepts in ways that remind me of... well me when I was brand new to the game and learning.

Plus when you are a new player, you tend to be very unsure of yrself. Poker is a game of skill, so when AA gets cracked by crap-crap suited you tend to think you did something wrong when you are new.

[Buccaneer]

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this is a hard post to respond to since you dont know how to play poker. examples

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I suspect that the hardest part of the post was that the OP knew he was going to get responses like yours and he wanted help enough to run the gauntlet.

[Bill C]

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this is a hard post to respond to since you dont know how to play poker. examples

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I suspect that the hardest part of the post was that the OP knew he was going to get responses like yours and he wanted help enough to run the gauntlet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. And I've been there myself. I remember getting my Aces badly cracked the first time, and how shocked I was. And how I was called "The Weakest Link" by a roaster on rpg.

But you learn that while it's a premium hand, and the best hand you can have preflop, you're gonna get cracked once in a while, especially if there are a number in there with you. Look at it this way: maybe no ONE player has odds to draw into you, but taken IN AGGREGATE, they do as a group, and of all of them, one often can hit something. This was called "the schooling of the fishes" by Izmet Fekali and Abdul Jalib. While any one of them might be making a mistake to draw, with each added fish, the odds he gets are better and better, until finally drawing is actually correct. (I hope this is understandable).

The principle you want to embrace is called "Pot Equity," which in effect means your actual expected share of the pot, based on your cards, as compared with your random chance. For example, lets say there are all 10 players staying in. Your random share of this is 10% (100%/10). But lets say (and I don't know the exact number here) that RIGHT NOW, your Aces give you a 40% shot to win the pot. Your pot equity edge is very large (40/10). When you have a big edge, you put money in right then, exploiting those who have no edge. This was true of your hand, and it's the reason you should bet/raise on the preflop (and flop round in this hand).

Also, by betting you may cause some of the fish to fold, diminishing the schooling effect at least some, and in effect, cleaning up some of the cards that can hurt you later.

Hope this was of some help to you. Hang in there, and you'll find you improve very rapidly. You couldn't be in a better spot than this forum. Don't let negative comments slow you down, but when you get better, remember what it felt like to get roasted!

bc

[Chadt74]

Remember you want people calling your PF raise with WTF 57s?!?

[Bill C]

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Remember you want people calling your PF raise with WTF 57s?!?

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Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at. Could you explain?
bc