Weak River Fold?

ISF · #1 07-01-2005, 09:26 AM

Villan is nothing special maybe a little passive. Dont remeber his stats exactly think 40/15ish. Is there a better way to play this river. Once I bet does a worse hand raise me on this board often enough to warrent a call?
Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

GetThere1Time · #2 07-01-2005, 09:29 AM

You said he's a little passive and he's waiting until that river to raise. I think its a pretty safe fold

I Play 2 Ski · #3 07-01-2005, 09:37 AM

If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

GetThere1Time · #4 07-01-2005, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

I Play 2 Ski · #5 07-01-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here. I'd rather pay one bet and see a showdown, rather than paying one bet to fold.

ISF · #6 07-01-2005, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here.

[/ QUOTE ]
In this game that is just not the case. Many worse hands would pay off here. I would be surprised if he would fold any
ace or king here.

GetThere1Time · #7 07-01-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here. I'd rather pay one bet and see a showdown, rather than paying one bet to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

VPIP40 and this guy never pays off with a worse two pair or Ax? I'd rather pay one bet to fold. A raise is never a bluff from this guy and I'm not letting a L/P fish get a free showdown with a worse hand he'll call with.

joker122 · #8 07-01-2005, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here. I'd rather pay one bet and see a showdown, rather than paying one bet to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you rather pay 1 bet and see a showdown when you can just bet the river, which costs one bet, and get called by worse hands all the time. you can also easily fold to a raise...the player read makes a fold even easier actually. pretty basic application of clark's theorem here.

krishanleong · #9 07-01-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here. I'd rather pay one bet and see a showdown, rather than paying one bet to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP played it correctly. Check call is abysmal.

Krishan

ggbman · #10 07-01-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to bet and fold to a raise, might as well check-call. Against a passive player, check folding is also an option

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think button pays off here with a worse hand a lot of the time? I think we're getting a call from a clubless ace here some of the time, maybe some worse hands, and we're only getting raised by a hand that's clearly beating us. When we check and this player bets were a pretty big dog so I like a bet/fold first, and then maybe a check/fold as a candidate for a close second.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i dont think there are many worse hands paying of here. I'd rather pay one bet and see a showdown, rather than paying one bet to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP played it correctly. Check call is abysmal.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh come on now, check call is soooo far from abysmal. I think it's obviously the correct line, but reagrdless of whether or not its best, there is no legitimate argument you can make for it being abysmal. You invest the same 1 bet and ALWAYS see showdown in a decent pot where you have a showdownable hand. You induce bluffs from hands that wouldnt call a bet anyway. You also get bad "value bets" from worse two pairs who figure they have you beat. You also NEVER get bluff raised byu the donk who has red nines and made it to the river and thinks, "hmmm, scary card i'll bluff raise". To me to this seems far superior to the bet/fold line.

Gabe