To vaule bet jacks or not to vaule bet jacks.

Scott_Baio · #1 06-22-2005, 02:22 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero ???

Would you bet/fold, bet/call, or check/call here?

RiverTheNuts · #2 06-22-2005, 02:24 PM

nm... I check/call but Im weak .. I don't like bet/folding unless the raiser puts in a raise after someone else calls... the bluff raise HU here is very possible I think

Dariel86 · #3 06-22-2005, 02:25 PM

Bet/call is not an option here IMO

Entity · #4 06-22-2005, 02:28 PM

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Bet/call is not an option here IMO

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Bet/call is certainly an option here. It just depends on the action.

Rob

Grease · #5 06-22-2005, 02:25 PM

Value. For future reference.

Um, what kind of reads do you have on these guys? If they are really LP, then I bet, but if they're TP, then I check or bet/fold. They could really have anything because they have done nothing but call.

I would probably bet this and be tempted to call a raise (barring a read).

redrooski24 · #6 06-22-2005, 02:34 PM

I'm a limit noob and I have trouble on these types of hands also(getting max value/losing the least) but I like the check call. Wouldn't someone with a Q raise on the turn? I agree with River in that it looks like some missed draws and you may be able to induce a bluff to get an extra bet(or maybe even 2 with a call from a 7 or 9 who thinks theyre good?), although I don't know if anyone is going to be bluffing a 4 way pot on the river. If you bet out and get raised you need to fold I would think so wouldn't c/c be the best choice? I just don't see getting much value out of the river bet personally. Again, please let me know if my limit thinking is way off on this.

RiverTheNuts · #7 06-22-2005, 02:41 PM

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I'm a limit noob and I have trouble on these types of hands also(getting max value/losing the least) but I like the check call. Wouldn't someone with a Q raise on the turn? I agree with River in that it looks like some missed draws and you may be able to induce a bluff to get an extra bet(or maybe even 2 with a call from a 7 or 9 who thinks theyre good?), although I don't know if anyone is going to be bluffing a 4 way pot on the river. If you bet out and get raised you need to fold I would think so wouldn't c/c be the best choice? I just don't see getting much value out of the river bet personally. Again, please let me know if my limit thinking is way off on this.

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Well, the thinking goes like this.. if you bet out, you will get called by 2 people probably, so you only need to win 33% of the time to make betting profitable, which I think we do, however, you have to balance that out with getting popped back with a raise, which I think happens about 33% of the time we lead out.

All in all that gets our winning requirement back up to around 50%, which I think is about the % of the time we win this pot, so I think a check/call, bet/call, and bet/fold are all marginal in this situation. I love making crying calls, so I would probably check/call because I want to induce a bluff from LP, and then get overcalls from worse hands, and also avoid a raise behind me that I probably will have to call because of odds. This may be flawed thinking, let me know

Fat Nicky · #8 06-22-2005, 02:45 PM

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you have to balance that out with getting popped back with a raise, which I think happens about 33% of the time we lead out.

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judging based on the action of the hand, 33% is wayyyy too big a figure.

chief444 · #9 06-22-2005, 03:27 PM

If you told me I was only good half of 33% here I still bet.

chesspain · #10 06-22-2005, 04:43 PM

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I love making crying calls, so I would probably check/call because I want to induce a bluff from LP, and then get overcalls from worse hands, and also avoid a raise behind me that I probably will have to call because of odds.

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Unless you know LP to an aggressive player who makes position bets, this is a terrible plan. Assuming that the last player will bluff with a worse hand and that you will then get overcallers with worse hands is fanciful and just an excuse for fearing a river raise. In fact, if you bet and get at least one caller, I think that the odds of someone else bluff-raising is extremely unlikely.