Gene Kelly vs. Fred Astaire

Shaman · #1 06-21-2005, 02:15 PM

Who was better?

How close did Michael Jackson get to these two song and dance men, prime for prime?

jakethebake · #2 06-21-2005, 02:16 PM

Gayest thread ever?

swede123 · #3 06-21-2005, 02:21 PM

Gene Kelly would be my pick, simply because of Singin' In the Rain. It's a very good movie, and I'm really not that knowledgable of Fred Astaire's work. Michael Jackson was a great singer/performer but a horrible actor, so I wouldn't compare him with the two greats of old.

Swede

Blarg · #4 06-21-2005, 02:27 PM

I don't think Jackson got very close.

Kelly was a hoofer. He loved the ground and stuck close to it. He made dancing look extremely physical, even macho. Watching him, you had no doubt this guy was strong and an athlete

To Astaire, the ground seemed incidental. His balance was high, and his legs glided under it. Dancing didn't seem so athletic with him, but kind of like a subtle miracle. He often looked like he was so relaxed he could not only complete his movements, but had extra time left over and grace to spare; everything fell so precisely and easily into place.

They both evoked a different kind of "wow."

Kelly was a stronger, more vigorous athlete and could out-do Astaire on that level. I can't picture Astaire doing a back flip. But in terms of making grace look casual and easy, Astaire seemed better. Kelly could make grace look miraculous, but hard won. You'd always say "wow" when Kelly danced, but maybe sometimes forget when Astaire did, because he was so good at what he did you could forget how hard it was to make it look effortless.

I'd say Kelly for overall athlete, but I wouldn't put his grace over Astaire's.

Shaman · #5 06-21-2005, 09:42 PM

I pretty much agree with your analysis. If Kelly were in his prime today, no break dancer would be able to touch him at break dancing. And he would be world-class in any form of dancing from hip hop to ballroom, etc.

Blarg · #6 06-21-2005, 09:54 PM

Yeah, he seemed pretty determined and fearless. Very strong ego, too. I don't think he'd stand for taking a backseat to anyone. His competitiveness would make him learn anything and master it. He definitely had the athletic gifts to not shrink away from new challenges.

Phat Mack · #7 06-22-2005, 05:27 PM

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Kelly was a stronger, more vigorous athlete and could out-do Astaire on that level.

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One thing to keep in mind is that Astaire didn't start appearing in films until he was in his 30's, and he was pushing 40 when he made the flicks for which he is now known. People who saw him dance in the earl 20's reported that he was much stonger athletically, but there's no visual record of it. I've always thought Astaire the better dancer because of his greater range, but that's a purely subjective opinion.

As a side note, a guy from that era whom I've always gotten a kick out of watching is Jimmy Cagney.

As another side note, I would put Prince ahead of Michael Jackson.

Patrick del Poker Grande · #8 06-22-2005, 05:28 PM

Seriously? This thread is still going on?

Shaman · #9 06-22-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As a side note, a guy from that era whom I've always gotten a kick out of watching is Jimmy Cagney.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cagney was a great song and dance man. I agree. So was the kid Mickey Rooney.

[ QUOTE ]
As another side note, I would put Prince ahead of Michael Jackson.

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This is a ridiculous statement. Jackson in his prime may not have been in the same league as Kelly and Astaire but he was at least in the same league as O'Connor, Bolger (who played the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz), and yes, Cagney.

Blarg · #10 06-22-2005, 06:16 PM

I dunno. I've frankly never seen him do sustained bits of dancing anywhere near the level of O'Connor. When I've seen Jackson it has been in rapidly cut videos full of short takes. The level of skill needed to look good in a quick cut isn't high at all. The level of skill needed to do full-coverage head to toe shots for extended sequences without cutting takes an entirely different level of athlete.

I'm not saying there's plenty about his dancing skills I may not know, but just saying that I think a lot of the credit for Michael's dancing belongs first with his choreographers, and also very much with the director and editors of his videos. A good team can make almost anyone look like a good dancer or fighter, much less someone with a modicum of talent.