Out of Pos KK

Gustavo · #1 06-16-2005, 05:56 AM

i think this is a leak on my game, ill avoid to put volume on the pot outofpos vs other deep stacks. Should have fired a 2/3 pot bet at the turn and fold to a reraise.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) converter

CO ($36.10)
Button ($47.10)
Hero ($56)
BB ($16.40)
UTG ($19.25)
UTG+1 ($28.20)
MP1 ($25.80)
MP2 ($67.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2.50, MP2 calls $2.50, CO folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($10.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $8.

Turn: ($26.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: ($26.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: $26.50

Results in white below: 
MP2 has 5h Ah (one pair, aces).
Hero has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins $26.50.

soah · #2 06-16-2005, 06:01 AM

Make it $5 to play preflop.

Komodo · #3 06-16-2005, 06:57 AM

Bet the turn. I would think he got a queen with a medium/weak kicker the way he played.

Gustavo · #4 06-16-2005, 07:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn. I would think he got a queen with a medium/weak kicker the way he played.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question here is how much to bet the turn ! A Pot bet at the turn would put me almost allin , 2\3 commits too much , 1\2 pot could be seen as weakness and he might push the draw.

Anyway go for 2\3 pot bet?

RUSE · #5 06-16-2005, 07:26 AM

Agreed. Caller is obviously drawing or has an AQ/KQ-type of hand. Make him pay to draw you out.

I'm usually a big fan of great big overbets preflop when it looks like it's developing like a multi-way deal. After that, unless a high pair or Ace flops push and live with the consequences.

Anyone disagree?

beginnersluck13 · #6 06-16-2005, 07:30 AM

I agree, you certaintly need to push this turn, by checking you now have lost the control of the hand and also give villian a free card.

subzero · #7 06-16-2005, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm usually a big fan of great big overbets preflop when it looks like it's developing like a multi-way deal. After that, unless a high pair or Ace flops push and live with the consequences. Anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]
Lately I've been making big preflop overbets with AA and KK in a multi-way pot. The idea is to keep only big pairs, AK, and AQ around. I don't want small pairs or suited connectors sticking around to catch a great flop. It's been working well against smaller stacks who are willing to gamble (which is fine with me). I don't mind taking down the pot preflop since you are usually way ahead or way behind on the flop anyway.

Komodo · #8 06-16-2005, 07:47 AM

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Bet the turn. I would think he got a queen with a medium/weak kicker the way he played.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question here is how much to bet the turn ! A Pot bet at the turn would put me almost allin , 2\3 commits too much , 1\2 pot could be seen as weakness and he might push the draw.

Anyway go for 2\3 pot bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think any bet is ok, from 1/3 pot to a push. This is an eternal poker dilemma: bet more to protect pot or bet less, get more money in the pot and risk being sucked out. The safe play is to push and the more risky is to bet small.

juris · #9 06-16-2005, 08:41 AM

Help me understand why you didn't bet the turn? Looking for a CR? With all of the draws possible, that was a mistake. Checking the river is good also.

MuckerFish · #10 06-16-2005, 08:51 AM

Raise more preflop. You're going to be out of position the rest of the hand. You'll be giving away info with the raise (unless you're raising out of the BB with other type of hands)so you want to try to get it heads up with someone.
Flop bet ok. Turn check bad. Doubt he called your flop bet with a gutshot, and another possible draw just appeared. Price them out and bet the pot. If this bet would leave you pot committed anyway, just push. I'd push that turn when you were likely ahead.