Should God Punish Evil People?

I heard Denis Prager, radio talk show host/political and socila commentator, say today that God should punish evil people. In fact, he said, he would not be religious if he felt God didn't punish evil people.


From time immemorial, God has been punishing evil people, who are defined as people who don't believe in the correct God. Ben Laden refers to us as "infidels." We are therefore evil and must be punished. All of the European countries who invaded the "New World" justified their policies as being willed by God. From Columbus on, they believed that the enslavement, exploitation, and extirpation of the naked infidels gave them strength and new vitality and was desired by God. John Underhill, addressing criticism of the burning of Pequot men, women and children in 1637 (well before Foxwoods) said that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents. We had sufficient light from teh Word of God for our proceedings."


Shouldn't we be beyond this by now?

Andy,


You wrote: "From time immemorial, God has been punishing evil people, who are defined as people who don't believe in the correct God."


As a long time listener I know Dennis Prager would not define evil people in this way. To him the God or religion you believe in (or chose not to believe in) is a matter of faith. He admits he can't prove the existence of God but he would assert that the existence of God cannot be disproved either. He would assert the world is made a better place when most people believe in a monotheistic God and try to live by the similar moral code that the major religions share. He would acknowledge that much evil has been done in the name of God, but even more good has been done due to faith in God and by practicing religion.


I'm not sure about what Dennis said today about evil people but my guess is that he believes they will be punished in the afterlife. However, I've heard Dennis talk a lot about the more common "bad people" (a.k.a., assholes). It is a matter of faith that bad and to a greater degree evil people are punished in the afterlife in some way. But I don't want to get into discussions of faith.


I strongly agree with Dennis that whether you are good or bad has little bearing on how likely you are to have good health, good fortune, or make your flush draws (in other words, the fact that bad things happen to good people and visa versa does not prove or disprove the existence of God). However, "bad people" suffer on earth in that they rarely have meaningful and deep friendships.*


Regards,


Rick


* Obviously some good people may lack friends due to shyness. The world isn’t supposed to be perfectly fair.

I also have no doubt Prager does not define bad people in this way. He seems very knowledgable about religions other than his own and very respectful.


But others who believe God should punish evil people do think this way. This is what I find dangerous about the idea that God should punish evil people.


I do not believe Prager was referring to the afterlife. Prager believes, for example, in the death penalty as a just punishment for evil. He believes evil people should be punished in this life.


Of course criminals should be punished. It's the idea of people deciding what God's intentions are that is frightening to me. This is, after all, Bin Laden's message.

Andy,


I think Prager believes that we should punish evil but he hopes evil people will also be punished in the afterlife. Regarding the death penalty man is punishing man. Whether God approves or not is unclear to me; however, Prager would argue that the dealth penalty is approved in scripture.


Regards,


Rick

It is the blind faith in scripture as being the literal word of God that I find quite disturbing. I don't know what Prager believes and I never heard of him until these posts. If he has blind faith in scripure as containing the literal word and intent of God, then I suggest he is probably way off base on some other things as well.


If he is arguing about scripture for the sake of debate or discussion, that is one thing. If on the other hand he believes that scripture taken literally is completely correct, then we have a serious problem with regards to the critical thinking skills of this person, or at the very least his religious inclination is overwhelming his rational analysis. Not even to mention that even if one believed that the scriptures were originally completely correct and conveyed the exact intent of God, that one would also have to be convinced that they were not at all altered through the ages or through translations. It is very easy for translations into other languages to subtly shift meaning, and slight changes in nuance or interpretation can have profound effects when discussing major ideas.


Those who decline to think for themselves look for answers to be given to them. Blind faith in scriptures is precisely this.

M,


I'd rather not try to speak for Prager after this post since what you wrote above is not representative of Prager's thinking. My brief reference to scripture in the post above yours I perhaps used the wrong term. Prager would argue that there is no commandment saying that "thou shall not kill"; rather it is "thou shall not murder".


For more on Prager you can find his site on google and reviews of his books on amazon).


Regards,


Rick

Thanks Rick,


I knew it might not be representative of Prager's thinking and therefore attempted to qualify my remarks with this in mind.


The point of my post was not Prager's thinking; rather it was the thinking of anyone who has blind faith in the veracity of scripture taken literally.

I think the whole idea of God meting out punishment is not something that would befit God (if God exists). This is one reason I have trouble seeing on the same level as those who speak of a vengeful God.


If I had a wish for what God would do about evil people, it would be to help them change internally so that they would no longer be motivated to do such evil things.


Some people speak of a just God, but the very concept of justice is itself a human creation.


In answer to your question, yes, we should be beyond such things by now; but we aren't. As a species our psychological and spritual development has lagged far behind our intellectual development and our achievement of technical expertise.


It is sad and ironic that those like the misguided Osama bin-Laden are the true "infidels", in that they act in a manner contrary to the true spirit of their own and other religions, and contrary to the true spirit of God (if God exists). Yet by following their specific dogmas and constructed thought-chains, they believe they are doing the right thing in a spiritual sense.


Delusion: it is in part an integral element of the human condition, since we have imperfect knowledge. It is also one of the greatest causes of suffering in the world.

Mark,


You wrote: "If I had a wish for what God would do about evil people, it would be to help them change internally so that they would no longer be motivated to do such evil things."


If God helped people change internally then it seems to me people wouldn't have free will. Isn't free will one of the keys that makes us human?


Regards,


Rick