I think i defend too much

27offsooot · #1 06-14-2005, 01:45 PM

sb is a TAG

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

I think the flop call is pretty easy but wanted to make sure. Wasn't sure if I put in too many bets or too few on the turn and river. My plan for a fourth spade was to call down and bet if checked to on the turn and river. Anybody throw in a raise if a fourth spade comes?

Thoughts? I probably need to start folding as I'm sure my bb defense to a raise by a TAG sb is like 85%

Emmitt2222 · #2 06-14-2005, 01:55 PM

Yah, I dont know how TAGgy that TAG is, but for the most part they will have higher raising standards from the sb much moreso than from the button because they realize they are out of position. I think this pf calls is no good but the rest of the hand is fine. I think the lowest I go here is 98o or 87o.

shant · #3 06-14-2005, 01:58 PM

I like to defend too, but I'd fold 34o. Your plan for the fourth spade was good, and I like the turn cap. After he still comes out betting on the river, I would really want to raise again like you did, but at that point I would just call.

Argus · #4 06-14-2005, 01:58 PM

I think this hand was played pretty well. The only things I would do differently are preflop (fold), and call the river. When you cap the turn and villain fires on the river I think TAGs can read the board. Maybe he's getting frisky with a set or two pair (some people get way out of line in steals), but chances villain has a flush. If it turns out villain did not turn over a flush here then you know for next time how many bets he is willing to put in on a scary board.

The preflop call is close; I'm probably defending with the top 75% or so of hands here.

toss · #5 06-14-2005, 02:01 PM

The only thing wrong I see if PF.

Although I'd want to just call that river bet.

MisterKing · #6 06-14-2005, 02:02 PM

In position, against what will be a raw steal most of the time (e.g. if he reads any weakness in you, he may try to steal almost 100% of the time HU in the blinds), I think you need to see a lot of frops. If and when you do flop something decent, you may need to ride that holding to a showdown even if you're not certain about where you stand.

Sklansky's section on heads-up play in HEPFAP has a really, really solid treatment of this situation, and while I don't think some of the plays outlined in that text apply to our small stakes games, the heads-up section definitely, definitely does. SB can show an automatic profit here if you don't defend often enough, and by "enough" I mean a very high % of the time.

sy_or_bust · #7 06-14-2005, 02:05 PM

I like this hand. Preflop calling with any 2 cards isn't very wrong if you play well postflop and your opponent will raise most hands. Calling on the river is OK if he won't play 2-pair this way. You shouldn't raise a river spade, because it hurts your hand.

27offsooot · #8 06-14-2005, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't raise a river spade, because it hurts your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant assuming i didn't turn the straight. I thought raising a 4th spade was a bad idea b/c i doubt he calls with a better hand and i like to see a SD w/o having to call a three bet. Just wanted to make sure.

chief444 · #9 06-14-2005, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts? I probably need to start folding as I'm sure my bb defense to a raise by a TAG sb is like 85%

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing I'm close to 85% or so as well. I'm not so sure that's bad though. 43o may be in the 15% I muck though. It's a pretty lousy HU starting hand.

I'd probably play postflop the same. The river raise may be a bit questionable so I might just call there after capping the turn. The flop call seems fine though.

27offsooot · #10 06-14-2005, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing I'm close to 85% or so as well. I'm not so sure that's bad though. 43o may be in the 15% I muck though. It's a pretty lousy HU starting hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I suppose that I give some value to the connectedness. I think that calling with 67o is pretty easy here so I don't think 34o is that bad. The hands i generally fold here are 72o, 92o, 93o, etc. So not very much.

As for the river raise. I think that seeing my ass get three bet might have swayed people's opinons. Even though the flush was pretty obvious here, I think people get a little too aggro in these HU situations so even though he capped the turn and led the river I wasn't giving him credit for the frush yet. I thought he could've played a set/ 2 pair the same way.

Results: Villain showed A2, MHIG, and villain was pissed.