Conversation I had with Chef.

[BeerMoney]

I'd like to preface this by saying that when I first moved up to 5/10, and 10/20, I NEVER stole antes. I had moved up from 3/6 and maybe some .5/1, where ante stealing was totally unecessary. After moving up, I got my ass kicked, reread 7CSFAP, and actually read the ante stealing section. This section has some fairly simple guidelines to follow, and I went ahead and used them in my arsenal. (More at 10/20 then at 5/10). After doing this, I discussed this with "The Donator".. Who was SHOCKED that I hadn't been practicing any thievery. He made a statement to the effect of: "Gotta steal to stay alive."

I have been mixing some 5/10 in with my 10/20 play now, after playing mostly 10/20 for a coupla months. I've noticed a drastic difference in the games, and I made a comment to vintage_sara that at 5/10 it seems more like a game of showing down the best hand,(there's a better way of putting this that I have seen in Gary Carson's holdem book), and at 10/20, it is more of a "battle for the antes."

Chef went on to say something to the effect of "No, you really don't have to steal at tight 10/20 ante structure, you just have to play solid".

Thoughts?

PS. Chef, I hope this is accurate to what you said, and you don't mind me mentioning it.

[bholdr]

I steal like a bandit when i play 5/10 and even at 3/6 when the game goes tight all of the sudden, but i think at a tight structure like 10/20 (where i haven't ventured yet... soon... soon...) it would be less important, and probably worth waiting for perfect spots to do it (like when you have an A on the door and there's nothing but the bring in and junk yet to act), as opposed to stealing in more marginal spots.

hmmmm....

[Roland]

5/10 has the same structure as 10/20

[PoorLawyer]

who is chef and is he a good player or a bad player?

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
who is chef and is he a good player or a bad player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chef is vintage_sara, and is regarded as the best stud player on party.

[vintage_sara]

Actually the structure is not the same in the two games at all.

In $5-10 the bring in is $2
In $10-20 the bring in $3

$10-20 is a more tightly structured game. If you limp with an underpair in 5-10 you are more correct to call if completed behind you verses $10-20, where you are incorrect to call with an underpair for a completion. $10-20 has a tight structure like $20-40 on Party Poker.

[Roland]

I stand corrected.
I should have said that the ante/bet ratio is the same in $5/$10 and $10/$20 – the larger bring-in at $5/$10 can’t make that much of a difference when you’re ante-stealing, right?

[vintage_sara]

I don't think that's true. Don't you have to relatively invest more to attempt to steal the antes?

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 has the same structure as 10/20

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah. duh. you get my point though, in a low ante game, maybe only steal when the situation is perfect, rather than not steal at all, or steal a lot.

thought i was reading 7cs today and browsed over the section on tight games- one comment was that a good player can 'acheive an excellent winrate' simply due to all the steals that people let them pull. i don't steal much unless it's really tight, at any level- i've never been in a cash game where i thought i could base base my winnings on stolen antes.

[vintage_sara]

I stand by what I said.

However, it depends on what you call stealing. If I am last to act and everyone has folded or only one player has limped and I have three overcards to their doors, I will on occassion raise. I will do this more often if it's just me and the bring in.

However, the percentage of time I "steal" is probably signficantly less than most players and most likely not really a steal at all. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] Usually, my overcards are live.

Bottom line, solid play is what makes the money. Trying to be too aggressive without the "goods" costs money that you just don't need to give away. I think my advantage online or in ring games comes from a solid image, which I hope is tight aggressive. It helps me against the good players. And, never kills my action against the bad ones.