blind play

molawn2mo · #1 06-06-2005, 12:45 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Villain is 36/12 and had commented earlier on my tightness; that is, he was trying to get me to loosen up.

Is this line appropriate vs this type player?

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 3 BB

mr pink · #2 06-06-2005, 12:50 AM

that's not much of a read, but i bet the flop here almost every time.

that is a great flop to bluff at - A72 rainbow

he's gonna have a hard time calling there without a piece, why let him see the turn for free?

molawn2mo · #3 06-06-2005, 12:58 AM

Jeff:

Think. please, at least one level up. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Do you want to get CR and then fold?

Isn't my check behind suspicious?

OK I run into trouble, maybe, if a K or Q come but I avoid the most common situations where villain calls the flop or cr the flop. Then what?

You fold or spew.

I'm the one that needs to see the turn for free.

mr pink · #4 06-06-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Think. please, at least one level up.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll do my best. answers to questions first.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want to get CR and then fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

nah

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't my check behind suspicious?

[/ QUOTE ]

only if you *always* bet in situations like these - which isn't right either.

[ QUOTE ]
OK I run into trouble, maybe, if a K or Q come but I avoid the most common situations where villain calls the flop or cr the flop. Then what?

[/ QUOTE ]

on an A72 rainbow board, if villain calls the flop - i think you can give him credit for something that can beat Jack high. check behind turn - call a river bet if you improve seems about right. this is hardly a spew imo.

i think if you're gonna bluff at this, the flop is the time to do it. you're getting 4:1 on you're attempt. even if you fold to every check/raise he throws at you, he still folds to that flop bet > 20% of the time that you need to show an automatic profit.

now the turn bet is getting 2:1, so he's gotta fold there > 33% of the time after getting a free shot at hitting one of his 6 outs.

come on cliff, i think you're overthinking this here.

molawn2mo · #5 06-06-2005, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think. please, at least one level up.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll do my best. answers to questions first.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want to get CR and then fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

nah

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't my check behind suspicious?

[/ QUOTE ]

only if you *always* bet in situations like these - which isn't right either.

[ QUOTE ]
OK I run into trouble, maybe, if a K or Q come but I avoid the most common situations where villain calls the flop or cr the flop. Then what?

[/ QUOTE ]

on an A72 rainbow board, if villain calls the flop - i think you can give him credit for something that can beat Jack high. check behind turn - call a river bet if you improve seems about right. this is hardly a spew imo.

i think if you're gonna bluff at this, the flop is the time to do it. you're getting 4:1 on you're attempt. even if you fold to every check/raise he throws at you, he still folds to that flop bet > 20% of the time that you need to show an automatic profit.

now the turn bet is getting 2:1, so he's gotta fold there > 33% of the time after getting a free shot at hitting one of his 6 outs.

come on cliff, i think you're overthinking this here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are right in every part of your analysis. I am going to sleep on this, 4.5 hours until I trudge into the city, but the question is METAgame not mathmatical. I bow to your skills but it was, as is usual for me a read-based, question.

Thanks for the input, Jeff.

toss · #6 06-06-2005, 01:48 AM

I bet here because I also come out betting with legitamte hands too.

Nate tha' Great · #7 06-06-2005, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
only if you *always* bet in situations like these - which isn't right either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Autobetting can't be far from correct in this spot.

Justin A · #8 06-06-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you want to get CR and then fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most hands that CR that flop will come out betting on the turn forcing you to fold anyway. Just bet the flop.

Edited to add: You'll also see bets on the turn from a lot of hands that would have folded on the flop, putting you in a very bad situation.

SavageMiser · #9 06-06-2005, 03:22 AM

Where would you rather get check-raised? Flop or turn? If you're going to fold when you get popped, bet on the flop.

WillyTrailer · #10 06-06-2005, 01:03 AM

heads up like that top pair is a monster. if you really have an ace you want him to catch and pay you off or to at least get one more out of him.

i'm checking behind and betting or raising the turn no matter what.

of course you can't take this line every time. you have to mix it up a bit. but if my opponent is at all aggro i'm going to try to get him to bet at it on the turn and either raise him there or on the river. but i like the turn raise because then he knows he's facing two more big bets of his going into a small pot to see a showdown.

-WT