Dealers propping: -EV for dealers? (questions for dealers who prop)

[juanez]

If you are a dealer and you sometimes prop in the same card room, do you find it -EV from a dealers stand point to prop?

In other words, do you find that players end up toking less when you are dealing because they recognize you as the guy who check raised them two hours ago or the guy that caught the "miracle" card for the nut straight to beat their pocket Aces or whatever?

Do you play differently than you normally would while propping?

Do you find any negatives at all to propping (besides losing money when on a bad run, of course)?

I have been hesitant to prop, which is voluntary at the Gilpin, but have also drooled at the prospect of taking some cash from some of our...ummmm...looser players (man, that just sounds bad). But the negatives for a long term "relationship" with a regular on the dealer side have been telling me to say NO.

Any thoughts from the dealers/props?

[Randy_Refeld]

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In other words, do you find that players end up toking less when you are dealing because they recognize you as the guy who check raised them two hours ago or the guy that caught the "miracle" card for the nut straight to beat their pocket Aces or whatever?

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I have heard a lot of people claim this is true, but I haven't seen it myself. I have seen an occasional player that says he won't tip or actually tip less, but I would say overall the "players" get better tips; there are a lot of players that are willing to tip someone that will play with them that they see as their "friend."

Where the propping is -EV is you can never make playing what you would delaing (in the long run), but it is a good diversion to avoid burnout and is a good alternative to taking an EO to amke sure you still get your 40 hours a week in without having to deal the whole time.

[dicelumpY2005]

Personally, I hate playing where I work on the clock, yet other dealers can't get enough... That is my biggest fear as well: having a player get pissed off at a dealer who is sitting in as a prop, and he'll stop tipping ALL the dealers. Letting dealers play on the clock can be good: gives the other dealers more downs/less breaks...but it can be bad: causes others in the game not to tip any dealers...

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I also haven't found too much in the way of players who don't like dealers who play. still, there are a few players, very large tippers, who i won't play no limit with, just because i don't want to bust them and risk future large tips. i don't worry about it in limit.

i NEVER play any different in ANY game, regardless of whether or not the "manager" would prefer that i softplayed, declined to check-raise, etc.

anyone who props anything less than about 10-20 or 2-5 no limit, and who is not ACTUALLY A GOOD ENOUGH PLAYER TO BEAT THESE GAMES AT A NORMAL RATE ($20 an hour or more) will be inevitably losing money in the long run by propping. however, randy gives good reasons why you should play on the clock now and then anyway. the less skilled you are, the less you should play on the clock.

al

[Terry]

In some places dealers are strongly discouraged when it comes to check raising. I’d say it’s wise to use it sparingly, particularly against weak regulars who might consider it dirty – you know who they are. Save your hardball plays for the big multiway pots when there is little danger of offending any one player or for the heads up action against tougher players and maniacs who won’t be offended by your action.

I’ve known a couple of decent dealer/players who were quite successful at subtly spreading the idea that their playing was a method of “giving something back” to the players.

[Brainwalter]

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I’ve known a couple of decent dealer/players who were quite successful at subtly spreading the idea that their playing was a method of “giving something back” to the players.

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Most of the dealers where I play don't have to go far out of their way to spread that idea.

[youtalkfunny]

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In some places dealers are strongly discouraged when it comes to check raising. I’d say it’s wise to use it sparingly...Save your hardball plays for the big multiway pots...or for the heads up action against tougher players and maniacs who won’t be offended...

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Tell you what: You pay for the chips I'm playing with, and I'll "use it sparingly".

But as long as we're talking about MY money, I'm playing nothing less than my best game, and I think it's ridiculous that anyone would expect anything else from me.

Not just you, T. I've propped, and I've had players, other dealers, even managers upset with me for playing an aggressive style. Note that I'm not talking about running my mouth, or being mean or nasty--I mean people were upset that I bet and raised too much. Not checkraised--just plain RAISED.

Last place I worked prohibited the props from check-raising in the smaller games (less than $10-20). Too many people around here get upset when they get checkraised by an employee of the cardroom. They don't mind when a plumber does it, or when a doctor does it, or when a waiter does it--but should a dealer try it, they hit the roof. It never made any sense to me.

"Hey, Bobby, buy some chips and sit down! But you're the only one at the table who can't checkraise." I could not play under those conditions. It's tough enough to win at this game, without giving the field a handicap.

Try winning at baseball when you're not allowed to throw curves.
Try winning a volleyball tournament when only your team is prohibited from spiking.
Let's play some one-on-one hoops. But you're not allowed to jump!
Shoot pool? OK. But you have to shoot one-handed, while carrying a bucket of sand in the other hand, with your shoes tied together, while whistling "Dixie".

That sand gets heavy after a while.

[CrashPat]

Most of the time I play in a small 3 table room and if there is only one or two of the tables going and all 4 dealers are still there, say it is early, one of the dealers will shill for the house if the table is 6 handed or less. When they do this they are there to fill a seat and make blinds easier on some of the players, I've seen them fold pocket queens face up to a raise.

I've only seen a dealer propping once and he was a lot more aggressive but really friendly and when the table filled up and he started dealing there was no ill will toward him.

At the same time I spend a lot of time playing with dealers that are off the clock, sometimes in their own cardroom sometimes not, and I've never seen anybody get upset enough with them to stop tipping. I personally like dealers that play, gives me something to rib them over at 5 am when the game is pretty friendly and everybody is tired. "I can't believe you cracked my aces with 2 4 offsuit AGAIN, jeez you are a crazy player." And then tip them again when I rake a pot.

[Chipr777]

I prop 4-8, 10-20, and 20-40 at Horseshoe Tunica quite a bit. I proped in a 1-2 blind no limit Omaha high only game the other day for 30 minutes and took over $600 off the game. I actually get more respect from the higher limit players when I deal or floor because they know I play the game hard. In the smaller games, 4-8 and 1-5 stud, it depends on the player. I dealt a bad beat in stud about a year ago. Out of all the players at the table I walked with $50. Do you think I have a problem check-raising any of those players? I think not. The $2 and $3 a pot 4-8 players? I've been known to bet and tell them I have the nuts.

[other1]

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I dealt a bad beat in stud about a year ago. Out of all the players at the table I walked with $50. Do you think I have a problem check-raising any of those players?

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Just curious.. How big was the jackpot? Do you expect a bigger tip for a bigger pot in general, or was this just a special case because there was a jackpot involved? I generally tip more on big pots, but I have no idea what would be considered appropriate in the case of winning some sort of jackpot.