On consciousness

[gasgod]

I am beginning to form an opinion on what consciousness is.

There are four components to consciousness: Sensory data input, memory, reasoning (data processing), and data output. When these four components are present, consciousness is the result.

Note first, that this implies that computers are, to some extent, conscious.

Let's examine an example of Non-consciousness, namely dreams. We all have them, but to varying degrees, we may remember them or not. However, nobody would seriously argue that dreaming is an example of consciousness, would they? But here's the point: In our dreams, we generally have a strong sense of self-awareness. I never dream of "being" somebody else, I am always myself.

This implies that self-awareness is not crucial to consciousness, contrary to most views. Maybe self-awareness is simply an illusion, or perhaps it is irrelevant.

I'm really not sure where this is headed. The fact that we have a strong sense of self awareness in a state where we are clearly not conscious is troubling.

Thoughts?

GG

[David Sklansky]

It think you are using an incorrect definition of consciousness. I think your comment that you can dream when you are not conscious is totally backward. Because I think it is accepted that dreaming is proof of consciousness.

[Joe826]

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It think you are using an incorrect definition of consciousness. I think your comment that you can dream when you are not conscious is totally backward. Because I think it is accepted that dreaming is proof of consciousness.

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What are the necessary and sufficient conditions for something to qualify as conscious?

[gasgod]

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It think you are using an incorrect definition of consciousness. I think your comment that you can dream when you are not conscious is totally backward. Because I think it is accepted that dreaming is proof of consciousness.

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I haven't given any definition of consciousness, so how can you say my definition is incorrect? I'm using the word in the usual sense that most people understand. Perhaps you could enlighten me with your definition?

When we are asleep, most people would agree that we are not conscious. I don't understand your second sentence. Nor do I understand the assertion that dreaming is proof of consciousness. Maybe we're talking about two quite different phenomena. What do you understand consciousness to mean?

GG

[Joe826]

Interesting thoughts. I think when we talk about being self-aware in dreams we actually aren't. I would argue that we aren't actually self-aware in dreams since self-awareness requires a perception of ourselves in reality. While we might have an idea of ourselves, we aren't aware of ourselves as we exist in reality. Instead we're aware of of ourselves in whatever dream world we've created. To this end I think it's legimate to say that, in our dream, we were concious, but in reality, we actually weren't.

[gasgod]

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Interesting thoughts. I think when we talk about being self-aware in dreams we actually aren't.

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This seems like a contradiction in terms. If you believe you are self-aware, how can you not be? Granted, you may be suffering from a delusion or an illusion, but this does not detract from your awareness of self.

GG

[Joe826]

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This seems like a contradiction in terms. If you believe you are self-aware, how can you not be? Granted, you may be suffering from a delusion or an illusion, but this does not detract from your awareness of self.

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This looks like a much more general argument, something like the cogito. It seems to me that self-awareness is something more than that. If we're dreaming, and we think we're someone else, does that mean we're concious as that individual?

Self awareness is exactly what it sounds like. if I have a dream that I'm George Bush, I can't be said to be self-aware since i've mistaken my own identity. That's where the "self" part comes in.

[gasgod]

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Self awareness is exactly what it sounds like. if I have a dream that I'm George Bush, I can't be said to be self-aware since i've mistaken my own identity. That's where the "self" part comes in.

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Ah, maybe this is where we differ. I have never dreamed I was somebody else, and I cannot imagine having such a dream. I can dream that I am capable of things that are impossible (eg. flying), but in my dreams I am always me.

GG

[xniNja]

Consciousness, in my mind and by any definition I have seen, does not disappear when dreaming.

[bohemian]

Consciousness has no components. It is the very basis of the four things you mention.