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#1
05-24-2005, 05:06 PM
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Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
Article by Jacob Perez at parttimepoker.com
Here's an excerpt... "Here’s an opinion I have that many others do not share, although I’ve found a few that do ... raising AA from the blinds [or kk, qq, ak etc] is a bad idea - especially from the BB. Here's the situation: you're on the bb with aces and five players come in behind you. The sb calls. I argue that you should just check..." Discuss please 
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#4
05-24-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
ok now I read the article.
[ QUOTE ] 1) With 5 or more players in the hand, your aces are no longer a favorite to win the hand. To be more precise, you are no longer a majority favorite - you will lose this hand more than you will win it. You are, however, still a plurality favorite - you will win this hand more times than any other single player. You want your money in with majority favorites as often as possible. Making moves with plurality favorites is a high-variance strategy and really only pays off if you are a much stronger player than your opponents. [/ QUOTE ] the distinction between majority favorite and plurality favorite is pretty arbitrary IMO. putting money in with majority favorites is a great idea, but you will still get +EV from both. the variance you "save" is not worth the EV you lose. that's why we have bankrolls. which is not to say you must push every single equity edge (think "two overpair hands") but not winning the pot 50% of the time is a horrible distinction. a better argument would have been his winning frequency COMPARED TO HIS OPPONENTS. this might justify not raising a hand like AJo, that while it has a likely edge, may not be enough that you can't recoup it postflop by minimising losses on bad flops and/or concealing your hand on a good one. [ QUOTE ] 2) Your raise can make bad players unwittingly play good. Sklansky has written about this in his TH for advanced players. Basically, your raise makes the pot bigger, giving correct odds to long shot hands. [/ QUOTE ] it makes them chase postflop, sometimes correctly, but you still get value on those bets when you have the best hand. what it also does is magnify their terrible preflop error, and that makes you money too. in fact, it doubles the amount they have to recoup postflop to make their preflop call profitable. I always hear "bt then gutshots get the proper price to chase!". well, he doesn't have a gutshot yet, sometimes when he does he'll be drawing slim to our set/2 pair, and often times he'll miss and fold correctly when he would have donated to you preflop. the flip side is that sometimes we lose an extra bet when we pay off on the river. think we make money or lose money raising them preflop and letting him chase it postflop? why are we so scared of gutshots? once I started getting money in with significant favorites and not worrying about the myriad of ways I could lose, I started beating limit games that said, he seems to realize that it's +EV to raise them, so I don't know why he's scared of a little variance
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#5
05-24-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
I agree 100% with your logic here. Surfing the web looking for limit strategy posts (specifically SH) I came accross the article and couldn't believe what I was reading. It just seemed like bad advice to me... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#6
05-24-2005, 06:02 PM
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Re: Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree 100% with your logic here. Surfing the web looking for limit strategy posts (specifically SH) I came accross the article and couldn't believe what I was reading. It just seemed like bad advice to me... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yeah he took S&M out of context and tried to apply it to LL games. These people don't play well. They are not limping with QJs and 66. They are limping with trash that misses flops or hits them in a weak way. You have to make them pay now. BTW HEPFAP is really "Hold 'Em Poker Against Advanced Players"
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#7
05-24-2005, 05:13 PM
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Re: Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
Well this article explains why he is writing for parttime poker and not fulltime poker. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
This is a total joke imo. When people play hands like T6o, you have to get the money in preflop since that hand doesn't hit a lot of flops. If they miss, you will not get anything from them postflop. Punish them preflop for their super loose play. You also have to consider that they will chase with hands that really don't warrent it (like backdoor draws and such). Build a pot. Brad
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#9
05-24-2005, 05:17 PM
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Re: Should You Raise With Big Hands From the Blinds in Limit Poker?
His thinking is flawed:
On point one, he is correct that you are <50% to win the hand with 5 people in. However, you stand to make more money, even though you win less often. (And it's not even close, do you see blah blah blah.) I would rather go up against 10 people (with a pot equity of ~30%) than heads up (with a pot equity of 80%), because the family pots are going to be so much larger you make more money off of them, even with the reduced share. The second point is a little more interesting -- but it seems like he has a problem protecting hands in large pots (large enough so that a bet will not protect your hand). It also goes back to the first point I made -- the only reason calling on the flop and turn is correct is because they made a bigger mistake calling pre-flop. -K
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