bruiser vs. diablo

theBruiser500 · #1 05-10-2005, 11:50 PM

on the river i think he has me beat, is it possible to fold or do i just have to see a showdown? opponent is diablo who is playing kind of LAG and weird.

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

James282 · #2 05-10-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
on the river i think he has me beat, is it possible to fold or do i just have to see a showdown? opponent is diablo who is playing kind of LAG and weird.

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Comments on the river play: He knows what you have when you check. Therefore you must call or raise. If my image was weak, I would raise. If my image is what it usually is, I would call. I think raising here rules because he will fold a lot of hands fearing that you've owned him while not giving you credit for having the balls to check-raise less than AK on the river.
-James

Paluka · #3 05-10-2005, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
on the river i think he has me beat, is it possible to fold or do i just have to see a showdown? opponent is diablo who is playing kind of LAG and weird.

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Comments on the river play: He knows what you have when you check. Therefore you must call or raise. If my image was weak, I would raise. If my image is what it usually is, I would call. I think raising here rules because he will fold a lot of hands fearing that you've owned him while not giving you credit for having the balls to check-raise less than AK on the river.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I'm not a badass. I have never checkraised this river in my entire life.

James282 · #4 05-11-2005, 12:06 AM

It's certainly not a default play, but on boards like this against thinking players, you aren't winning the hand by betting the river. A play I'll occasionally make against weak-tight over-thinkers is this:

Let's say I have AK, and a decent but "try too hard" type of guy raises from LMP. I three-bet out of the SB and we take a 3 way flop of 225. I bet, bb folds, CO calls. Turn is a 3, bet-call. River is a T. He doesn't have a T. He almost always has AQ, AK or a small pair. So I'll check-raise, making it "obvious" that I have the big pair and that I've owned him. He'll be smart enough to value bet his small pair but not smart enough to realize that I know he has a small pair. But anyways, that's a lot of blab. Just sayin sometimes you gotta get in there with bluff check-raises in hands where your hand has marginal showdown value where it's apparent you are beat by the time the river comes off.

But anyway, Diablo is smart enough to see through this from an opponent whom he deems as tough and tricky, b ut I doubt he thinks bruiser is capable of this, which is why I suggest raise.
-James

Ulysses · #5 05-11-2005, 12:05 AM

STFU James. Like you've ever checkraised me w/ JJ on this river. You think I stop playing limit for a while and all of a sudden show up w/ 88 here? Or start folding AT? Come on, man, get real.

James282 · #6 05-11-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
STFU James. Like you've ever checkraised me w/ JJ on this river. You think I stop playing limit for a while and all of a sudden show up w/ 88 here? Or start folding AT? Come on, man, get real.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't, but I havent' played you in ages. I do know that when we used to log a lot of hands together and post hands in HUSH, that we both agreed that when relatively straightforward opponents check-raise you on the river and you have a mediocre one pair, that it is an easy fold. Please don't make me go dig up the thread.
-James

James282 · #7 05-11-2005, 12:10 AM

Also, in 4 handed hold 'em, it is far from out of the question that you could have a pair less than Aces on the river. If not, then you are certainly setting yourself up to be run over.
-James

theBruiser500 · #8 05-11-2005, 12:13 AM

just put put Diablo's name in the title and 8 responses right away. good posts james

theBruiser500 · #9 05-11-2005, 05:37 PM

i called and this clown had some sort of trash like A6o

Ulysses · #10 05-11-2005, 12:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
then you are certainly setting yourself up to be run over.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of facets of my game that suck. That's not one of them.