"I value call my nuts"

scotty34 · #1 05-08-2005, 07:43 PM

First hand at the table, no reads on anyone. (Yes I know its the second nuts)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls...

Yay? or Nay?

Buckmulligan · #2 05-08-2005, 07:48 PM

I think I would have raised the turn... there are 4 8s and 9 diamonds that I don't want to see on the river. It's probably ok, IMO, to go for overcalls on that river.

iNsChris · #3 05-08-2005, 07:49 PM

Im a newbie but i...

Played it like you did,but then Raise river.

Pay the 78 hand if he has it, seems agressive for flopping the nuts straight...

bozlax · #4 05-08-2005, 07:50 PM

I think I agree with going for overcalls on the turn (except that if a 7 or 8 falls on the river I'm not feeling very happy), but by the time you get to the river anybody that's calling 1 will call 2, dontcha think? Raise.

ArturiusX · #5 05-08-2005, 07:54 PM

Raise the turn, raise the river. Make them pay to see the river.

scotty34 · #6 05-08-2005, 08:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, raise the river. Make them pay to see the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is my thinking

On the turn, If I raised, I would face the field with 4:1. No one is getting the correct odds to call, and likely the only (incorrect) caller would be two diamonds, if they are out there. The original bettor may even fold. By going for the overcalls, I think the additional bets in the pot for the majority of the time when the diamond does not hit would make up for the few times I lose when the diamond does hit. If the diamond does hit, and someone made their flush, I was going to lose the hand anyways, but it would cost me more. Going for the overcalls was a gamble I think, but in this case it paid off on the turn.

On the river, I have the second nuts (I am not worried at all about losing the hand). If I raise here, who is going to call me? A rivered Q would probably be the only one. The original bettor may even fold. If I just call however, any 9 will probably call, any Q will call (and maybe even raise), 88 and 77 will call, a 6 may even call. By raising, I think the only money that goes into the pot is a rivered Q, and possibly the original bettor. I took a gamble and went for the overcalls again, (and prayed for a C/R Q).

Like it any better, or still no?

KaiShin · #7 05-08-2005, 08:45 PM

I don't mind going for overcalls on the river, but the turn simply must be raised. There's a lot of draws here that will happily pay 2BB to see the river.

scotty34 · #8 05-08-2005, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind going for overcalls on the river, but the turn simply must be raised. There's a lot of draws here that will happily pay 2BB to see the river.

[/ QUOTE ] I suppose I am overestimating the micro players slightly. I know 2 diamonds would call this in a second, but I didn't really stop and think about a 7, which would probably also call. A 4 or an 8 may call, but I doubt it.

However, what are the chances that any of these draws are actually out there? What are the chances that they are calling with a couple of overcards or a weak pair? That is what I based my decision on. It appears I could be wrong though.

cmwck · #9 05-08-2005, 09:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

On the turn, If I raised, I would face the field with 4:1. No one is getting the correct odds to call...

[/ QUOTE ]

People haven't figured out yet that you need good odds to call with gutshots and overcards ; give them the chance to make a mistake by calling when they should fold. By not raising you are encouraging gutshots to play their hand correctly.

Baloosh · #10 05-09-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Here is my thinking

On the turn, If I raised, I would face the field with 4:1. No one is getting the correct odds to call, and likely the only (incorrect) caller would be two diamonds, if they are out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when is 4:1 to a flush draw with one to come, incorrect odds? With implied odds, he's sure to get a Check/Call out of you at the worst when his diamond hit (1BB) so don't the implied odds make 4:1 pot odds needing a diamond on the river a +EV call?