Israel's Spy Nabbed

[Chris Alger]

The FBI finally got around to charging defense analyst Larry Franklin for passing secrets to AIPAC, "the first" indictment in an investigation of Israeli spying in the U.S. dating to 2001. We won't be hearing much complaining about this from the pro-war "patriots," traitorous scum who give not a damn about the law, the troops or their country.

[vulturesrow]

Whats it like living with so much hate in your heart? Just curious. Every once in a while you pull off a decent post and you have been more than civil to me in PMs when we talked about books. But then you go and post something like this. What exactly do you think that the scummy patriots should take issue with? The time it to took to charge the guy? The fact that we charged him at all? A little more coherency and a little less vitriol would go a long way.

[Chris Alger]

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Whats it like living with so much hate in your heart?

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I'm just applying their own rotten set of rules to them. As for hatred, your inquiry is better directed elsewhere. After all, I'm just name-calling. When it comes to you (and all other Iraq war supporters) and Iraqis, you tolerate and even applaud those who actually bomb them and burn their children to death on the grounds that "U.S. interests" are better served thereby. Unlike the occupation forces in Baghdad, I don't shoot into Republican crowds, bomb Republican hospitals, wipe out Republican families at checkpoints and drive around Republican neighborhoods with a bumper sticker that says "Keep 50 meters away or deadly force will be used."

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What exactly do you think that the scummy patriots should take issue with?

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The ever so slight contradiction between purported concern American security and demanding massive support for a country trying to undermine it. If supporters of country X stole state secrets, think about how they'd treat a politician who announced that half our foreign aid should go to country X? They'd crucify him, unless the country had a solid record of killing Arabs.

[vulturesrow]

I thought you might take the opportunity to be somewhat rational but instead you wander of into your delusions again. And "just name-calling" doenst precluded hatred. If I call black person a nigger am not being hateful even though Im "just name-calling"?

I see your point about that spy but youre putting it a bit too simplistically. There are a lot of factors that you (and I ) know nothing about. Of course you think the factor is that we like killing Arabs.

[Chris Alger]

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Of course you think the factor is that we like killing Arabs.

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It is not merely my opinion that war supporters "tolerate and even applaud those who actually bomb them and burn their children to death on the grounds that 'U.S. interests' are better served thereby" (my words). That's a fact. The degree to which you "like" to do this is open to speculation. (Although not much, given the American right's passionate support for the war and the racist statements and standards so often invoked by its supporters. On this forum, consider some fairly typical examples: Felix Nietsche's claim that "if all the Palestinians in the world were to drop dead tomorrow, I would not let that disturb my breakfast," or MMMMMM's statement that U.S. troops should trap all adult male Iraqis in Fallujah in their homes and bomb them, or Gamblor's historical defense of terrorizing -- with bombs in markets and public squares -- Palestinian civilians, and so on.)

[MMMMMM]

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or MMMMMM's statement that U.S. troops should trap all adult male Iraqis in Fallujah in their homes and bomb them,

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Never wrote that. I suggested that Fallujah be cordoned off, the women and children leaving; then armored columns should enter: the city should be curfewed and all buildings searched systematically and all weapons confiscated. Where firepower resistance might be met it should be overwhelmed. I certainly did not argue for bombing all the homes in Fallujah, nor for trapping all the men in homes then bombing them.

I put you on ignore some months ago because of your persistent efforts to mischaracterize what I wrote and what I meant. Yet you have no sense of shame and continue in this vein most blithely and egregiously.

Your hatred of ideas contrary to your own has apparently turned you into someone who will lash out at anyone holding opposing views, and you will do so in underhanded and personally vicious ways. If you are indeed a lawyer then my guess is that you are probably quite despicable in your tactics when on a case. I am glad I've never met you because it is now my feeling that you are probably a genuinely loathsome individual, consumed by hatred, and willing to personally attack anyone who opposes your ideological preferences--even to the extent of greatly mischaracterizing what they have said.

Here's a tip: don't go misquoting or mischaracterizing people in the courtroom, because there it has a good chance of biting you in the ass. Or, maybe it already has--and that might be why you work as an online prop playing low-limit poker instead of in full-time law practice? Just a wild guess but it wouldn't surprise if it is nearly right on the money.

[Cyrus]

I honestly don't get it.

You are a military man, according to your self-description. Shouldn't that imply a kind of stronger dislike for spies against your country?

You are categorizing a spy (an alleged spy) according to his background, intent or country of origin? Or to the country for which he spies? I would think that you'd be more angry, rather than less, if a spy is caught spying for a supposedly friendly country!

Understand that I'm not saying no spying is going on between "friends"! That'd be polyannish in the extreme. I'm saying that such "friendly" spying, if and when it happens, is (or should be) as discreet as the other kind, the spying against enemies.

When someone is caught spying for an enemy, he should be punished severely, in order to deter potential other spies, etc. When he's caught spying for a friend, he should be punished equally severely, in order to draw the line more firmly between inviting friends over for dinner and them pissing in the kitchen sink.

If the spy was Israeli, Palestinian, French, British, or Martian, the indignation should be the same.

(Interestingly, in the case of catching someone spying for a "friend", the option of exchanging spies, which is prevalent between "enemies", does not exist between "friends"! At least, theoretically.)

[vulturesrow]

Cyrus,

My comment was really more of a comment on my own ignorance of the finer details of this case. My fault for not keeping myself informed on it. That being said, if we assume that even friendly countries spy on each other, it may lead us to being some what more lenient in order to not jeopardize the alliance or because we are confident that information wont be used to harm us. Just something to think about.

In actuality, my biggest beef with our relationship with Israel is the spying issue and also their willingness to sell their military technology to certain countries that has the potential to be used against the US.

If we really want to fan the flames of this issue, lets consider where I would be sitting right now should I get caught doing something like that..be it giving our secrets to Israel or selling Israeli secrets to the US. I am pretty sure I would be somewhere very unpleasant and wouldnt be conversing over the Internet with you and my other friends here on the politics board. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Gamblor]

This topic has been addressed at length.

In fact, only Israel haters have been caught calling him a spy - not even the FBI called him a spy, he merely is an idiot.

Pray tell, is it your insinuation that Mr Franklin, neither Jewish, nor having never been to Israel, nor having any contact with high level Israeli diplomatic personnel, is on the mossad payroll?

[Chris Alger]

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only Israel haters have been caught calling him a spy

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Franklin has admitted to passing highly classified military information to an organization who's fealty to Israel is legend and whom he knew had no right to receive it. The idea that he didn't realize this information would probably find it's way to Israel is as preposterous as your quibble over whether he's guilty of "spying."