WSOP BACKER DEAL

jdoe · #1 05-03-2005, 12:57 AM

Say I was going to play in a $1500 event at the WSOP and I wanted to sell some of my action to my poker buddies. If I were to sell 15 shares at $100 each and give them 5% per share after taxes is this a good is this deal for me?

Anything I am missing here?

jdoe

Moovyz · #2 05-03-2005, 01:15 AM

It all depends on if YOU think this is a good deal. If you honestly think you are a top notch player and stand a much greater than average chance to win, then no, it's not a good deal. Many, who are backed, get 35-50% or more of the winnings. Go to www.fossilmanpoker.com to see what deal Greg Raymer made last year. (it's in the frequently asked questions area)

I'm playing in 2 events, the $1500 NL and the $2,500 NL and I'm backed 100%. I get 50% plus expenses. I'm probably an above average player with numerous tournament wins and 25 years of profitablity.

But it's strictly up to you. In my deal, all taxes are paid out of the win before the split (contrary to Greg's deal). I'd recommend spelling all this out in any agrangement. If you feel comforatable with the deal, go for it.

Phill S · #3 05-03-2005, 02:26 AM

out of interest, are you the blogger who won on sunday?

Greg (FossilMan) · #4 05-03-2005, 05:32 AM

Anytime you're playing in 1 event, be it 1 tournament or 1 session of a cash game, you're putting up none of the money, and you can keep more than 10% of any win, it's a good deal for you.

In this case, if you sell those shares, you'll be playing for free and keeping 25% of the win. It's a great deal for you.

And the deal that Moovyz got is fantastic and so good for him, it's amazing. And that has nothing to do with him, it would be a great deal for Negreanu, Greenstein, Brunson, you, me, anybody. Playing for half the win with no financial risk in only 1 event is a huge -EV deal for the backer.

It would be different if I were backing a player for a long series of poker games and/or tournaments, with the player keeping half of the net profit from the series. But, when it's one event only, you can't be making a good deal when you give the player that much. In my deal, I got 35%, but that was for the net win over a half-year period of cash games and tourneys, which is COMPLETELY different than a 1-event deal.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

BISCO · #5 05-03-2005, 05:46 AM

are there any sample backing agreements (read: contract) available to the public that could be modified for purposes of easily selling a piece of yourself in a tournament?

BISCO · #6 05-03-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
are there any sample backing agreements (read: contract) available to the public that could be modified for purposes of easily selling a piece of yourself in a tournament?

[/ QUOTE ]

bump

TomCollins · #7 05-03-2005, 05:00 PM

Greg (and others),

What would you consider a fair deal for backing an above average (but not world class) player in a smaller buy-in preliminary event ($200-300)?

What cut is "reasonable" or "fair"?

Moovyz · #8 05-03-2005, 05:46 PM

Hey Greg,

It is a sweet deal huh? I was just about to email you to let you know I'll be there from 6/21-6/26. Maybe I can buy you breakfast one day?

I'm gonna have to argue on behalf of my backer that this is a -EV for the TWO events...lol. Personally I plan on winning both, then seeing you at the final table of the Main Event. Seriously, I'm sure it is a negative EV, but this person blows this much weekly in slot losses. So it has to be a +EV for her vs. that. She also owns a "pre-paid" piece of me for the remainder of 2005 if I cash for more than a pre-determined amount (I should have mentioned that I guess).

In retrospect, I guess I didn't calculate the fact that the original poster was only playing the 1 event. You're right, any % of money won without risk is a great deal. But he should make sure he has the deal set about taxes. If he only gets a small amount but owes ALL the taxes, he may come out bad in the end.

On that subject, was that portion of your deal set up ahead? I know you paid the taxes on the entire win. But had you calculated and agreed with your backers on that part prior? If you had or hadn't, now knowing the outcome from last year, would you set it up differently now?

Best regards, Glen

Beerfund · #9 05-03-2005, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I can buy you breakfast one day?

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What? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Buy him a beer you [censored]. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Moovyz · #10 05-03-2005, 08:10 PM

He can have beer... it's just that in all the times I've played with Greg I've never seen him drink it. Dinner's out, because he'll be playing late into the night. I'd like to sit down to a nice breakfast with my friend... if it's ok with you?