Cold call on the button with 66

[jrobb83]

UTG was pretty straight forward TAG, MP was very loose erratic player capable of aggression, BB was loose passive.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

My plan for the turn was to fold if BB or UTG bet, raise if they checked and MP bet, and bet if checked to unless paint hit.

[J.R.]

I don't really like that flop call, (even more so in light of your turn plan- which is essentially to try to fold a probable better hand), why not raise flop and drive BB outtie if you're into your 66 here?

I'm down on the preflop too, although its not so bad if sb is a loose goose.

[jrobb83]

My main reason for my turn plan was not to make a better hand fold, but I did consider the possiblity of driving UTG off something like 88.

My thoughts on the flop was that there is a decent chance relative to the size of the pot my hand was best. The reason I didn't raise the flop was because I would know pretty much exactly where I stood when it was up to me on the turn. I also wasn't confident that I could fold bb a majority of the time.

Preflop was fine, sb was loose/bad, and the table was capable of gifting me plenty of chips postflop if it came down well.

edit: I don't think my description of MP gave his horribleness its due credit. He was very awful, and his call on the flop did not narrow his hand down as much as it would normally for most players. He was capable of calling this flop (as was bb) with any backdoor flush, a gutshot, or something like QJ.

[J.R.]

If I'm utg, what am I checking on this turn? That's the gist of my deal, I think UTG bets K high and such, an A and pairs, so how often do you get the chance to do something other than fold the turn? (he is a tag so how many non pair hands can he have here- not too many and most bet the flop and turn)

and given your reads, how do you respond to a turn broadway card or a T if utg checks and MP bets? You bet/raise with great uncertainty but it just seems cleaner to raise the flop where u are likely best and know where u are if UTG 3-bets, (maybe UTG folds a better hand??), and even though BB may have called u charge him to draw and define your hand so that his actions (as a passive player) are more transparent. basically give yourself a shot to play headup with the idiot(s) while protecting your hand/getting value and making BB streets easier- I'd rather make the mistake on the flop than the turn if I make one

[jrobb83]

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If I'm utg, what am I checking on this turn? That's the gist of my deal, I think UTG bets K high and such, an A and pairs, so how often do you get the chance to do something other than fold the turn? (he is a tag so how many non pair hands can he have here- not too many and most bet the flop)

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I think he would follow through on the flop with the majority of his broadway hands, and any of his pairs. After betting this flop and seeing everybody call on a relatively draw-free board (including a TAG: my play must seem very peculiar to him). I think he checks all of his non-ace broadway holdings and most of his medium pairs. I likely would check-fold my KQ and KJ and such in this situation.

My read (for what its worth) was that UTG would check all of the hands I beat (and some I don't) on the turn, but 3-bet with any ace on the flop. The pot was very large here, so I did not think folding was correct with any decent shot of winning, and that for a 1 sb investment plus the risk BB draws out with something he would fold if I raised, I would know exactly where I stood on the turn.

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and given your reads, how do you respond to a turn broadway card or a T if utg checks and MP bets? You bet/raise

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If paint hit my plan was to ditch the hand, as I am nearly never best and will rarely fold a better hand. Sorry I wasn't clear here.

The benefit of raising the flop here probably depends on how often UTG will muck a medium pair right away.

[J.R.]

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After betting this flop and seeing everybody call on a relatively draw-free board (including a TAG: my play must seem very peculiar to him).

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yeah but mp is a wacko, BB is loose and you call isn't exactly scary- i duuno, i would never check 99 on this turn, but might fold it to a flop raise from u (especially is BB calls 2) as your hand could easily by a suited A like ATs or such. but when u call I think I fire a lot of stuff.

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The benefit of raising the flop here probably depends on how often UTG will muck a medium pair right away

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true

[geormiet]

When mp calls, I would be done with the hand and dump it on the flop.

Even though both players sometimes have nothing, keep in mind this is on of the driest possible boards, and even a super calling station like mp has trouble calling the flop bet with J9s or some other cheese.

Besides, for this to work out, too many things have to fall in place:

utg needs to not have an A, or a bigger PP (and he has to be willing to fold a bigger PP)

mp needs to not have an A (or a 3??)

bb needs to not wake up with a hand

No one can pair up on the turn.


I like the pf call, but going any farther than the flop is far too much action.

[MAxx]

yeah, you are a player short on your pf cc

dont like flop call either

[sthief09]

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yeah, you are a player short on your pf cc


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I make that call every time unless a 15/5 is the raiser

[MAxx]

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yeah, you are a player short on your pf cc


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I make that call every time unless a 15/5 is the raiser

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why?