call down with JJ?

[peterchi]

My first post, don't be gentle on my play but please be gentle if the post is f'ed up [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

villian is 40/11/0.7 in 27 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Mostly concerned about what to do on the turn, but comments on all streets appreciated.

[mute]

I'm not giving my opponent credit for an overpair until he caps the flop, so I would 3bet and lead the turn (unless he caps) and call down if raised.

You will end up giving your opponents with AK/AQ too many free cards on the turn by playing it this passively , I think.

[PokerSparky]

Cap preflop.

3 bet the flop. If villain caps, call down. If just called, lead the turn.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.



[/ QUOTE ]

UGH.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.



[/ QUOTE ]

UGH.

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Can you elaborate on this? I liked my call at the time but everyone has convinced me otherwise. Plus in general I think I've been lacking enough aggression, so I was thinking this was one type of spot I have been missing out on.

More words from you please. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[w_alloy]

I'm never sure to cap JJ or not when I raise and its 3 bet to me. I too would like some more expierienced players to elaborate on this.

[CallMeIshmael]

It all depends on his range, IMO.

If he is a AA-TT + AK kinda guy, then you are about a 56/44 dog, so you lose a tad on the cap.

Also, a cap doesnt tend to over represent your hand with the intention of making your opponent make a bad fold.

For example, if you 3-bet 55, over representing your hand, you might induce a solid to fold AJ on the flop (fear of having only 3 outs, when in fact he has 6).

But, this isnt going to happen a lot here, as AA-TT + AK is going to showdown a lot at this limit.


But, if his range is a little looser, you can cap for value.


Also.... if the pot is 3+ handed, things change big time. Put one calling hand in there (especially if he is loose) and I would be capping here.

[Azhrarn]

Personally, pre-flop, heads-up and out of position against a reasonable three-bettor, I don't like to cap with anything. Am I the only one who plays this way?

The advantage of this is you can usually figure out where he is after the flop, but he doesn't know where you are.

This doesn't work well against people who 3-bet with a wider range of holdings, and it's pointless against people who can't find the fold button post-flop. But in general, I find it to be a useful tactic in SS games where 3-betting is rare.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm never sure to cap JJ or not when I raise and its 3 bet to me. I too would like some more expierienced players to elaborate on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

At 2/4, capping a 3-bet heads-up with JJ is marginal, in my opinion.

It does (somewhat) help you play the rest of the hand more easily, but you're often a slight favorite or a huge dog going into the flop.

And, actually, what I sometimes used to do at 2/4 with JJ versus a preflop 3-bet when I didn't have a very reliable read -- which was to call the 3-bet and then start check-calling postflop (so long as there was no ace on the board) -- is okay too, I think.

It feels like a very timid way to play JJ, but, against an unknown, a preflop 3-bet at 2/4 is often going to be a very big hand.

There are those who will 3-bet with A6s or 33 too, of course, so it helps to have some idea who you're up against.

[brazilio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cap preflop.



[/ QUOTE ]

UGH.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate on this? I liked my call at the time but everyone has convinced me otherwise. Plus in general I think I've been lacking enough aggression, so I was thinking this was one type of spot I have been missing out on.

More words from you please. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ flops an overcard around 60% of the time if he's got AK. Even if he does have it, that means you've got roughly a 40% chance you're behind on the flop, and another 43% chance or so he improves by the river if he sees this to showdown. Unless I can more definitively put him on a resteal, I don't think I'm capping this. I see JJ as a definite moneymaker, but it's also a danger hand.

edit, numbers were wrong

And this doesn't even consider being completely dominated by an overpair.