Interesting hand in SH college freezeout.

[Prevaricator]

thebruiser and I disagree on how I played this hand, so lets see what others think.

3 handed - winner take all freezeout. I'll post this here because the quality of the responses in this forum is much better than others.

I am in the sb with ~T2200.
Danny ("thebruiser") is in the bb with ~T1700.
Andy ("chipmovr") is on the button with ~T2100.

Danny is very solid, very tricky, capable of making big bluffs, and folding big hands. He likes to trap with his big hands a lot though.

Andy is a bit more loose aggro. Highly capable of making big bluffs. He has been playing really fast, reraising the button with A high and small pairs.

5/10 blinds
Andy limps on the button (which I thought was very odd at the time, he had been raising a lot).
I complete in the sb with KJo.
Danny makes it 30 more in the bb. Andy calls and I call too.

[Pot=120] Flop is J54. Danny bets out 100, Andy makes it 250. What's my play?

[radioheadfan]

Raise to 750. If you get raised or get a call you might have to give it up though. If you smooth call you're giving Danny great odds to call and you're not gonna know where you stand when the turn card hits and you'll be out position for the turn and river. I'd be looking to take it down right there. Button could have anything, but by raising his raise, you put Danny in a sandwich and that's awesome because you're more worried about his hand than button's hand in my opinion. He needs a damn good hand to continue after your raise to 750.

If you don't wanna dance with these two guys in this particular spot a fold isn't that bad either.

Calling is the worst option in my opinion.

Good post.

[theBruiser500]

by calling i get great odds to call? with what, AK? looking to hit a 6 outer with huge reverse domination going on, there are no draws out there (discounting 34 of course which no one has 96% of the time). by calling he won't know where he is? raising 500 more is a lot for information. and what can i really do unless i have top set, with that action on that board? nothing really unless i pick up some good read, i bet 100 andy raises to 250 and randy cold calls, i am scared

[radioheadfan]

Moreso than trying to get information, the hero is raising to putting alot of pressure on your hand by raising, which is what he needs to do since he's out of position for the rest of the hand (so hero is basically bluffing at this point, although his hand has outs if called). If he flat calls, it's tough to laydown QQ (or whatever pair/overcards you may have) for 150 more (although I agree that a flat call would be scary). You'd at least have to see the turn and see what he does (that's what I mean by odds to call, not that there are any draws out there, but that it would simply be too cheap of a call for you in that size pot to laydown a decent hand) - *** this is exactly what hero wants to avoid so he should raise ***

Given the circumstances, this is a clear fold or raise situation for the hero, in my eyes.

[aggie]

I think you should be the one betting out T100 on this flop...

But as you played it, fold. Even though it's three handed and you're against aggressive opponents, you're out of position, and the pot has been bet and raised. You can reraise to 600 or so and hope everybody else folds, but i don't think the risk/reward ratio is there.

[lennytheduck]

I think fold is definitely the play (with call being the worst, as aggie stated). I know that when I start playing fast and decide to mix it up one of my favorite plays in limping a big hand from a position, like the button, where I have been raising consistently.

[LetYouDown]

[ QUOTE ]
I think fold is definitely the play (with call being the worst, as aggie stated). I know that when I start playing fast and decide to mix it up one of my favorite plays in limping a big hand from a position, like the button, where I have been raising consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]
But most reasonable players can see right through this. Regardless, I fold and find a better spot for my money. Top pair/solid kicker is obviously extremely vulnerable in a multiway pot.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
I know that when I start playing fast and decide to mix it up one of my favorite plays in limping a big hand from a position, like the button, where I have been raising consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that lots of players think like this, but it makes no sense. The whole reason to raise a lot is so you can raise your big hands and get action. You are just throwing away money by limping with big hands when your opponents don't respect your raises. In fact, the worst case may happen, where your smooth call sets off alarm bells and they put you on exactly the hand you hold.

If you've been raising a lot, there is nothing to do with aces but raise.

Good luck.
Eric

[Prevaricator]

I dont like leading out; id rather check and call if andy doesnt make a play. leading out defines my hand too much and it gives him a chance to raise me off with a hand worse than mine.

[theBruiser500]

incidentally your play strikes me as a possible very good bluffing spot. the pot is 450 back to you when you bet 600 to wi nthat 450 and someone is going to nee da stron ghand to continue here vs. you