JJ turns nasty

Womble · #1 04-18-2005, 04:47 PM

One of my first hands at the table

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) raises, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds

GatorXP · #2 04-18-2005, 04:53 PM

I'd be checking that flop. No one is folding to your flop bet with the good size pot and your probably behind.

Womble · #3 04-18-2005, 05:01 PM

Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

car ramrod · #4 04-18-2005, 05:06 PM

The second example is good for two reasons. It is HU, so yes bet the flop. Also you 3 bet, and he did not cap. I would put him on a smaller pp.

Sykes · #5 04-18-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this hand was played perfectly, and I do the exact same thing. The reason why this hand was played better than the first one is because you're heads-up in position and there is only one overcard on the board. By raising on the flop and betting the turn, you may get a weak-tight player to fold his QQ/KK on the turn.

Womble · #6 04-18-2005, 05:14 PM

Ahhhhhhh, because there were 4 people it is highly likely that an A is out there since they called the capped preflop. The preflop capper likely has me bet and thats not including the others

thesharpie · #7 04-18-2005, 05:11 PM

Check call the flop in the first hand. If you don't think your set outs are enough, you also have the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I'd call it with just the set outs even.

tijean · #8 04-18-2005, 05:12 PM

This hand is completely different from the first one. It wasn't capped; it's HU; and there's only 1 overcard on the flop. So yeah, raising here is the right thing.

[ QUOTE ]
looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

threadkiller · #9 04-18-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he had check-raised the turn (either because he has AKo or much less likely because he had 66-55-44), what would you have done? Call or 3-bet?

Womble · #10 04-18-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reason I did bet it was that I had to be sure I was behind before I folded, looking at it again, i wouldnt beat any capping hands so i guess I should have check-folded the flop

Heres another, I bet the flop again with the scary A

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Was this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he had check-raised the turn (either because he has AKo or much less likely because he had 66-55-44), what would you have done? Call or 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you are just making things complicated. I suppose it could happen although the turn is a brick. The check-raise surely indicates something phenominal but AA isnt there (no PF cap) AK is the only possibility.

A checkraise seems too random, suppose I would need a read. Normal/passive = fold. Super crazy maniac = call