Question about Extracting Value

[Unparagoned]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">SB (t1005)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t820)</font>
UTG (t615)
UTG+1 (t760)
MP1 (t775)
MP2 (t740)
MP3 (t595)
CO (t1700)
Button (t990)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t70</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t70, SB calls t55, Hero calls t40.

Flop: (t280) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t30</font>, Button calls t30, SB calls t30, Hero calls t30.

Turn: (t400) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t125</font>, Hero ???



Ok, so, let's run a little check-up here on my ability to extract maximum value from the hand. Do we like a call in this situation? The board looks basically perfect on the flop. Rainbow without any cards that really look to connect too much. I suppose 78 could be possible, but I'm inclined to take my chances. On the turn, do I just call here, or does it seem likely SB has a 9 and is ready to show down? Do I call trying to rope along other players or perhaps even induce a raise from MP2 or Button? Just want to see how other people go about trying to extract value from what figures to be the best hand.

[J-Lo]

i think u raise to 300 and pot commit anyone who wants to come along for the ride... there are still a few cards that u cannot bet on the river...

Again, this depends on your style. Do u like to trap-- or are u the more aggressive type-- remember this is important the times you wish to bluff at the pot.

[Unparagoned]

[ QUOTE ]
i think u raise to 300 and pot commit anyone who wants to come along for the ride... there are still a few cards that u cannot bet on the river...


[/ QUOTE ]

Which cards are you scared of? Is it only having the board pair again or do you have something else in mind?

[tech]

Call and hope someone raises behind you.

[Unarmed]

Lead 1/2 pot on the flop.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Lead 1/2 pot on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, or a nice round number like 100. You were the BB so bet like you caught a small piece of the flop with your crappy random hand.

In the real hand, calling the turn is likely best. If the SB has a 9, you can always raise on the river. His small bet may entice weaker hands to call behind you on the turn.

[Unparagoned]

Why lead into the pre-flop raiser here? I would never raise to 70 pf in her position, but if I did, I would probably be continuing post-flop. What is your plan for the rest of the hand?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Why lead into the pre-flop raiser here? I would never raise to 70 pf in her position, but if I did, I would probably be continuing post-flop. What is your plan for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume PF raiser has an overpair. You want to pot commit her so you can stack her off. If you lead, she will raise. Bingo, you've accomplished your goal.

Now contrast that to the typical line most players take with 22. Check/call. Check/call. Push. You're letting overpairs get away far too easy here, not to mention the times they have JJ/QQ/KK and an overcard drops.

And just generally, slowplaying sucks

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Why lead into the pre-flop raiser here? I would never raise to 70 pf in her position, but if I did, I would probably be continuing post-flop. What is your plan for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

You would lead into the raiser because they've already represented a big hand, so you're hoping that they raise you on the flop, thinking you caught something like middle pair, to protect their hand. This move is player dependent however. Against the majority of low buy-in players, it is much better to check and let them keep the lead. Many of them will NEVER check a ragged board after raising preflop, and you've got a near-perfect trapping situation. They will also raise with a lot of hands preflop at these levels, so they don't necessarily have a big pair that you can extract value from. They will fold unpaired high cards if you bet into them, they will bet unpaired high cards, if you check to them. They may even continue betting ace high on the turn. Checking the flop gives more value in the most situations.

If SB has a 9, there are only three cards that could fall on the river to give you a scare, and his money is going to the middle regardless of whether you raise the turn or river. The minimum you're going to win here is doubling through SB's stack, see if you can get a little bit more out of the other players in the hand before you take down the SB.

If SB doesn't have a 9, the worst thing you could do here is raise. Both blinds betting and raising each other on a raggedy paired board is going to send everyone else in the hand running, even if they have AA. SB is most certainly not going to call a raise from the BB if he doesn't have the goods. However, if you just call, there's a good chance he will bluff into you on the river thinking he can push you off. Calling gives more value in the more situations.

-Phoenix

[mhcmarty]

I'd raise here. You have MP2 yet to act and the SB has an opportunity to re-raise. He may think he has you out kicked with the 9's. MP2 may have an overpair that he can't lay down. I prefer to extract value after the turn rather than the river.