Playing my aces

[MRBAA]

I open raise 'em in EP in a Party 2-4 game, tight, passive. New player I have no significant line on calls in the SB. He and I take the flop head up:

T63 rainbow

He checks. I bet. he calls. We see the turn:

T63 3

Now he bets out. He is the SB, so I suppose there are some hands with a 3 he could have (A3, K3, Q3s, 33, 34s, 23s, 35s). But chances are I'm ahead -- he could have a T or a pocket pair. When I'm ahead, he usually has 2 outs. When I'm behind, I have 2 outs. I'm figuring he'll often fold (correctly) if I raise. Or reraise when he DOES have a 3.

So I...

The river comes down:

10633 2
He bets out, and I'm thinking he'll fold his weaker hands (44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 99 and overcards), call with stronger ones -- JJ, QQ, KK, AT, KT or raise with a 3. So I...

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
New player I have no significant line on calls in the SB

[/ QUOTE ]
...
[ QUOTE ]
I'm figuring he'll often fold (correctly) if I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]



<font color="red"> Work </font> <font color="green"> on </font> <font color="blue"> your </font> <font color="orange"> figuring </font>

[Jdanz]

why raise the turn rather then the river? i feel the only way more bets go in (total) is when villian really likes his hand. I don't think you lose anything with call/raise as opposed to raise/bet, and he cold fold a weak hand that's more likely to call on the river.

-JDanz

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
why raise the turn rather then the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

they don't deal an ocean on party

and

the opponents liklihood of 3-betting doesn't changes much street to street

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
the opponents liklihood of 3-betting doesn't changes much street to street

[/ QUOTE ]

Does his liklihood of folding?


[ QUOTE ]
they don't deal an ocean on party

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this supposed to be a 6th street joke?

[J.R.]

yes.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the opponents liklihood of 3-betting doesn't changes much street to street

[/ QUOTE ]

Does his liklihood of folding?




[/ QUOTE ]



No.


The retards i've been playing on party 2/4 this week would call me down with any T, and 4, and PP, and probably A high. Seriously.

If you bet this river and got called, would you really be that suprised if you checked the HH and the villian called down with 22?

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why raise the turn rather then the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

they don't deal an ocean on party

and

the opponents liklihood of 3-betting doesn't changes much street to street

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand often plays MUCH better by waiting to raise the river barring a specific read, and waiting until the river is a pretty standard line.

One big benefit is that it often freezes a poor handreading 3 up on the river and saves you a bet--the likelihood of being 3-bet changes substantially from street to street against many opponents. Another is that you don't lose out on the equity you have in the pot from your 2 outs the times you are beat. Another is that you often get an extra bet out a guy who is on total air.

Obviously if the guy will habitually call the raise with a naked ten and then bet out on the river, always check the river after betting the turn, or reliably go off for way too many bets with a hand that you beat trying to represent the 3, raising the turn is better, but if you're planning to fold to a 3-bet on the turn you might as well wait and pop the river.

scrub

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
One big benefit is that it often freezes a poor handreading 3 up on the river and saves you a bet--the likelihood of being 3-bet changes substantially from street to street against many opponents. Another is that you don't lose out on the equity you have in the pot from your 2 outs the times you are beat. Another is that you often get an extra bet out a guy who is on total air.

[/ QUOTE ]

My original point was that MRBAA is wrong to figure most will fold correctly on the turn. I only provided some lighthearted arguments as to why one would raise the turn when somebody asked me.

However, I still think calling the turn isn't right because more people will fold correctly on the turn than on the river, which I think is backwards, but its better because of what a bluff does. I know you miss out on the 2 outs if you fold to a turn 3-bet, but given that only matters if he has a 3, I think its a pretty remote consideration here (but wouldn't be if we didn't have 2 pair). I also think waiting to the river doesn't materially change what a 3 does though.

[TheHip41]

...go back in time and raise the turn. He doesn't have a 3, come on now.

If not the turn, raise the river.

People wont fold after betting the turn and river for 1 more bet. They just wont.

It would be criminal not to raise this somewhere on the turn or river.