When to make a move?

MoodyA · #1 04-13-2005, 12:14 AM

any thoughts on the play of this hand not many reads on players before this but table was about 30% vp$ip which I think is high for 5/10

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls $2.50 (All-In), MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.45 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (15.45 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 18.45 BB

cold_cash · #2 04-13-2005, 12:16 AM

That's a peach, hun.

What are you wondering about?

CallMeIshmael · #3 04-13-2005, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you wondering about?

[/ QUOTE ]

MoodyA · #4 04-13-2005, 12:28 AM

well I gain 1 extra bet with the raise on the flop if I smooth call the set I might get the two behind to call. instead they fold and the three infront get caught for two. make the move on the turn instead of the flop for maximum value. I usually go for playing my sets as fast as possible because they are not that big of a hand but in this case the pot is so large that everyone is getting odds to call the first bet. By slowplaying the flop I might add value on the turn and have a better chance at putting players on -ev calls (because of the size of the pot a turn raise lowers the odds further) instead I continue to build on the flop guarnteeing a couple of chasers(which is not a bad thing but the board does have high straights out there) of course the full house makes it all good on the river but I don't know that on the flop.

NickRegino · #5 04-13-2005, 12:33 AM

In doing that though it makes them check to you on the turn.

MEbenhoe · #6 04-13-2005, 12:23 AM

I don't like the preflop raise there.

I also think this is a case where you can wait until the turn to raise. You're getting 2 BBs out of everybody instead of 2 SBs and you're not chasing away anybody on the flop. What cards are you really gonna be scared of on the turn? Yes you're giving Button and BB odds to call with a gutshot, but did Button really cold call with T9? And this path maximizes your value as everybody thats already in is coming along for the ride on the raise, but you're missing bets by raising the flop.

Given how you played it, turn and river are obviously fine.

damaniac · #7 04-13-2005, 01:28 AM

I don't know, people love to call small bets on the flop more than big ones on the turn. Especially in this case, the pot is big and kind of ragged, they may just be peeling, and would be more likely to call another bet on the flop than 1 or 2 on the turn.

NickRegino · #8 04-13-2005, 12:31 AM

Hmm, very intersting that you raised preflop with 88 in late position, even though its 1 out of 8.5 time u will flop a set u got lucky. Also with flopping your set, me personally I would have just called. Showing strength right on the flop could make people fold where as you want more of them to bet had you just called, holding a set out on the flop is very powerful. In doing so I would've called on the flop and wait for someone to bet out on the turn and raise it there for an additional BB. Then go ahead and bet out on the river. But everyone plays differently and you played straight foward which is fine. I think it just depends on your preference of play.

Michael Emery · #9 04-13-2005, 12:37 AM

Nick, you fish, good to see you posting some. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mike Emery

cold_cash · #10 04-13-2005, 12:42 AM

Raising 88 in the cut-off seat after 4 presumably too loose limpers seems like a no brainer to me. (As does raising this flop.) Maybe I missed a memo or something.

I don't like waiting here because a lot of the time the turn will end up being checked to you anyway, and you'll have missed the opportunity to trap the flop callers.

Welcome to the forums.