basis flop question

cockandbull · #1 04-09-2005, 12:24 AM

I'm wondering if these hands are a simple as i think they are...hero raises doesn't he? Can a case be made for waiting until the turn to raise here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises

cockandbull · #2 04-09-2005, 12:58 AM

I know this is boring and easy, but i'd like to get some confirmation and then i can let this thread fall off the 2+2 scale.

harry

mr pink · #3 04-09-2005, 01:15 AM

this is a pretty safe board for tptk, there are no draws out there. the button has at most 3 outs in this spot (the kings), unless he has a flush draw. so if he calls (w/out a flush draw), he'd be making a making a mistake getting only 9.5 to 1.

with a flush draw, he really doesn't mind the flop raise too bad. but he'd have to hate a turn raise.

so yeah, i think waiting till the turn has some merit here. although it's something i overlook a lot of the time.

cockandbull · #4 04-09-2005, 01:19 AM

how often once called, do you think i'm going to be bet into on the turn or does that really matter here?

mr pink · #5 04-09-2005, 01:52 AM

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how often once called, do you think i'm going to be bet into on the turn or does that really matter here?

[/ QUOTE ]

this depends a lot on the opponent. i can't really say for sure.

Bill C · #6 04-09-2005, 01:06 AM

Looks good to me!

jclin · #7 04-09-2005, 01:19 AM

Raise on turn still won't get rid of flush draw, especially if button has flush draw and UTG+1 has kq or something like that. Raise now for value.

Even if HU, this is still a raise.

Now, if it is Q32 RAINBOW, then you have a different story. Raise on turn (even with a K or J popping) is, in fact, a great play.

mr pink · #8 04-09-2005, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise on turn still won't get rid of flush draw, especially if button has flush draw and UTG+1 has kq or something like that. Raise now for value.

Even if HU, this is still a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

no flush draw is ever folding. that is not the point.

no offense, but raising this HU would kinda suck against most opponents.

jclin · #9 04-09-2005, 01:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise on turn still won't get rid of flush draw, especially if button has flush draw and UTG+1 has kq or something like that. Raise now for value.

Even if HU, this is still a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

no flush draw is ever folding. that is not the point.

no offense, but raising this HU would kinda suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I think about it, raising it HU is quite sucky.

I guess turn raise on a safe card is more +EV, but flush draw still gets pot odds (esp. if UTG+1 has draw). So a turn raise only changed flush draw from +EV (flop) to less +EV. It is still +EV. Sorry, I'm not sure exactly how a flush draw is "not the point".

How about call-call-raise on safe card? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

cockandbull · #10 04-09-2005, 01:47 AM

I think the point is that it is more likely that an UTG limp is a hand we are ahead of like a PP or a worse q like KQs/QJs so by raising i'm knocking out most hands he will hold. I'm just wondering whether its a good idea not to raise b/c once called most ppl will check fold unimproved so i might as well charge them now. I still not sure which is best...and although this has made the problem a little clearer i'd like some more comments if people dont mind.