1-2NL Tropicana, WTF do i do here?!

King Elliot · #1 04-07-2005, 05:17 PM

1-2nl tropicana AC,

i hold kjo in late position, i limp , bb raises to $15, a consist player whom ive played against regularly, not too flashy but solid... idiot to my right calls, i call.... $50 pot....

flop j98
raiser makes it 25...idiot calls...i call.....
pot $125

turns 3 with a rainbow board

original raiser bets a mere $25 again, idiot calls...i debate raising but tell myself that i can call one more $25 bet on the river and would be happy to see the results...

river: king

original raiser makes it 25 again... idiot does a 30 second speech about what everyone has and why and proceeds to call...i debate for a minute.... i have about 300 left in front of me...original raiser holds about 230...whats your move?

BirdieLongSocks · #2 04-07-2005, 05:32 PM

Given the action to the river I whould make it 50-75 more to call. The small bets are kinda wierd and this two pair will probobly not give you that much.

I would however raise the turn.

TrailofTears · #3 04-07-2005, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
whats your move?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is fold PF an option? How about limp-fold? No? Well, okay, here you go. Raise to 125. That is enough of a raise to make you some nice money, but also is almost definitely a call by villain and also by table coach. Pushing wouldn't be too much of an overbet, but you also don't want to scare off QQ, AA, AJ, etc.

But seriously, fold PF twice. Or raise to take the initiative, and then fold to BB's re-raise.

-Trail

Beavis68 · #4 04-07-2005, 06:45 PM

I would just call, why open up the betting again?

TrailofTears · #5 04-07-2005, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would just call, why open up the betting again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any reason to believe OP doesn't hold the winning hand right now? And that extraction is worthwhile?

four eight suited · #6 04-07-2005, 07:29 PM

Im with trail here. Just fold that preflop. Facing an 8.5xBB raise with KJ there is no way you should be in there without a really sweet read on the two players, which I didnt see. Even so, why no raise on the turn? Put in a decent pot/slightly over raise and probably pick it up right there. I wouldnt been against a call on the river given your action on the other streets. Without testing these continued weak bets you dont necessarily know where you are at. I would just call.

zaxx19 · #7 04-07-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im with trail here. Just fold that preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe sooted. I actually prefer raising with this hand to calling in LP. Not that I often raise with it unless the pot is unopened.

Beavis68 · #8 04-07-2005, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would just call, why open up the betting again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any reason to believe OP doesn't hold the winning hand right now? And that extraction is worthwhile?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I play more tournament then ring, so conserving chips is always on my mind. The small bets tell me that he has a hand he wants to be called with, several trips or a straight fit that. Or a hand is he looking to fold cheaply, what would he call with? J9? 98? AJ?

four eight suited · #9 04-07-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would just call, why open up the betting again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any reason to believe OP doesn't hold the winning hand right now? And that extraction is worthwhile?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I play more tournament then ring, so conserving chips is always on my mind. The small bets tell me that he has a hand he wants to be called with, several trips or a straight fit that. Or a hand is he looking to fold cheaply, what would he call with? J9? 98? AJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

with either option, looking for a call or looking to fold, require a nice sized raise to find this out, no?

TrailofTears · #10 04-07-2005, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The small bets tell me that he has a hand he wants to be called with, several trips or a straight fit that.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is betting so weakly with a set on that board, he is dadonkadonk, as the kids say (or don't say). He isn't protecting against the straight draw, which means he is afraid of it already being there, and a nice raise might push him off his hand. Seriously, who bets 25 into a pot of 125 on the flop with any kind of a set?

If he has the straight, he is just as foolish for not protecting that against a fillup.

Third, I think that villain will call a raise to 100 with any overpair to the flop, and with AJ, QJ, TJ, J9, J8. If KK is his holding, that sucks, but it isn't likely.

Fourth, you are forgetting about the table coach with his great read on everyone. He is dying to make that great call and will certainly call but not re-raise, as he didn't raise the initial bettor anywhere along the line.

Raise the river and take a very nice pot.

Any other questions?

-Trail