Two KK hands

DVC Calif · #1 04-07-2005, 10:55 AM

Stars $20+2 rebuy tourney.

Hand No. 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t3000)
Hero (t3000)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t3000)
MP2 (t1500)
CO (t3000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t90, 5 folds, SB calls t80, BB calls t70.

Flop: (t270) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t200, SB folds, BB calls t200.

Turn: (t670) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t500, BB calls t500.

River: (t1670) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t1240, Hero...???

Hand No. 2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)
MP3 (t1130)
CO (t1685)
Button (t6910)
Hero (t8940)
BB (t3345)
UTG (t5590)
UTG+1 (t2755)
MP1 (t2750)
MP2 (t2895)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t90, MP3 calls t90, CO calls t90, 1 fold, Hero raises to t500, 1 fold, MP2 calls t410, MP3 calls t410, CO calls t410.

Flop: (t2030) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
[b]Hero...???

Potowame · #2 04-07-2005, 11:17 AM

wow, talk about wanting to vomit..

hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

Che · #3 04-07-2005, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I probably call anyway in rebuy. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really only 34% mathematically (assuming opponents have random hands), but the preflop action does increase that number dramatically (i.e. we assume opponents' hands are not random) so check-fold is probably OK. If you had enough to bet 60% of the pot and then get away, you could try it, but your opponents are too short in this case.

Later,
Che

schwza · #4 04-07-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand #1

there is so many hands that kill you here, i cant see calling. I dont think he has an ace but I think he wants you to call with an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I probably call anyway in rebuy. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2

Mathmatically There is about a 80% chance that someone has an ace. With the preflop action I would say it is really 100%, so hit the nearest fire exit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really only 34% mathematically (assuming opponents have random hands), but the preflop action does increase that number dramatically (i.e. we assume opponents' hands are not random) so check-fold is probably OK. If you had enough to bet 60% of the pot and then get away, you could try it, but your opponents are too short in this case.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/ both.

Potowame · #5 04-07-2005, 02:24 PM

I missed the Rebuy part.

I think It might Make hand #1 a closer call.

Hand #2 I was going off the chart in SS, page 578.

9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

Che · #6 04-07-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che

Potowame · #7 04-07-2005, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

That does drastically change the figure, I assumed this was a figure that you use for total hands dealt , not total players in hand. I guess I was wrong, thank you for clearing that up.

schwza · #8 04-07-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
9 handed - you have no ace % that no other player has an ace. 20.14%.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't 9-handed, it's 4-handed. The others folded preflop and are irrelevant when the ace hits.

Later,
Che

[/ QUOTE ]

not neccessarily. if you assume "every player will play any ace" (wrong, but not too wrong in a rebuy) then you definitely have to consider how many people were dealt in.

even if you don't make that ridiculous assumption, you still do. if you're playing 4-handed and everyone limps, the hands aren't neccessarily good, whereas if four players (including the blinds) limp 11-handed, the hands should be better and have more aces.

nsj · #9 04-07-2005, 12:43 PM

Those actually hurt to read.

I muck them both. Villain in 1 was almost certainly calling along with the Ac.

In 2, you have two outs. Check/fold.

betgo · #10 04-07-2005, 02:21 PM

KK is a nice starting hand, but I play these both the same way I would play 33 if I was the third limper into a pot and I missed my set. Try playing Omaha if you want practice laying down big starting hands.