Comments Solicited on ITM aggression (LONG POST!!)

[LaggyLou]

Below is a hand history from a 10+1 SNG last night. I chose to play it very aggressively, as you will see, and ended up all-in as an underdog three times (sucking out all three to take the win [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]). But the alternative, as I see it, was to essentially get blinded out. Comments?


***** Hand History for Game XXXXX *****
jk42980 finished in fourth place.
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:36:13 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (4213)
Seat 9: donate_here (2917)
Seat 10: king2006 (870)
LaggyLou posts small blind (150)
donate_here posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ As, Tc ]
king2006 folds.
LaggyLou raises (4063) to 4213
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here calls (2617)
donate_here is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $5834 with donate_here
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1296 with LaggyLou
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jc, 3h, 4d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 5834 | Side Pot 1: 1296
Board: [ Jc 3h 4d 9d 2h ]
LaggyLou balance 1296, bet 4213, collected 1296, lost -2917 [ As Tc ] [ high card ace -- As,Jc,Tc,9d,4d ]
donate_here balance 5834, bet 2917, collected 5834, net +2917 [ 2d Kd ] [ a pair of twos -- Kd,Jc,9d,2d,2h ]
king2006 balance 870, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:36:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1296)
Seat 9: donate_here (5834)
Seat 10: king2006 (870)
donate_here posts small blind (150)
king2006 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 9s, Th ]
LaggyLou folds.
donate_here raises (450) to 600
king2006 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 900
LaggyLou balance 1296, didn't bet (folded)
donate_here balance 6134, bet 600, collected 900, net +300
king2006 balance 570, lost 300 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:36:48 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1296)
Seat 9: donate_here (6134)
Seat 10: king2006 (570)
king2006 posts small blind (150)
LaggyLou posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 5h, 9d ]
donate_here folds.
king2006 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 450
LaggyLou balance 1446, bet 300, collected 450, net +150
donate_here balance 6134, didn't bet (folded)
king2006 balance 420, lost 150 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:36:59 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1446)
Seat 9: donate_here (6134)
Seat 10: king2006 (420)
LaggyLou posts small blind (150)
donate_here posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 7h, Tc ]
king2006 folds.
LaggyLou raises (1296) to 1446
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1746 with LaggyLou
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1746
LaggyLou balance 1746, bet 1446, collected 1746, net +300
donate_here balance 5834, lost 300 (folded)
king2006 balance 420, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:37:14 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1746)
Seat 9: donate_here (5834)
Seat 10: king2006 (420)
donate_here posts small blind (150)
king2006 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 9s, 7c ]
LaggyLou folds.
donate_here raises (450) to 600
king2006 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 900
LaggyLou balance 1746, didn't bet (folded)
donate_here balance 6134, bet 600, collected 900, net +300
king2006 balance 120, lost 300 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:37:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1746)
Seat 9: donate_here (6134)
Seat 10: king2006 (120)
king2006 posts small blind (120)
LaggyLou posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ Qs, 4d ]
donate_here raises (600) to 600
king2006 is all-In.
LaggyLou calls (300)
Creating Main Pot with $360 with king2006
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, 8s, Th ]
LaggyLou checks.
donate_here bets (1320)
LaggyLou folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kc ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4c ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 360 | Side Pot 1: 2280
Board: [ Ac 8s Th Kc 4c ]
LaggyLou balance 1146, lost 600 (folded)
donate_here balance 6854, bet 1920, collected 2640, net +720 [ As 2d ] [ a pair of aces -- As,Ac,Kc,Th,8s ]
king2006 balance 0, lost 120 [ 6s 2h ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Kc,Th,8s,6s ]

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
king2006 finished in third place and won $20.
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:37:54 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1146)
Seat 9: donate_here (6854)
LaggyLou posts small blind (150)
donate_here posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ Qh, 4h ]
LaggyLou raises (996) to 1146
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1446 with LaggyLou
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1446
LaggyLou balance 1446, bet 1146, collected 1446, net +300
donate_here balance 6554, lost 300 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
400/800 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:38:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1446)
Seat 9: donate_here (6554)
donate_here posts small blind (200)
LaggyLou posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 2d, 9d ]
donate_here raises (600) to 800
LaggyLou calls (400)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6h, Kc, 7h ]
LaggyLou bets (646)
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here calls (646)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ]
Creating Main Pot with $2892 with LaggyLou
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2892 |
Board: [ 6h Kc 7h 3h 9c ]
LaggyLou balance 2892, bet 1446, collected 2892, net +1446 [ 2d 9d ] [ a pair of nines -- Kc,9d,9c,7h,6h ]
donate_here balance 5108, lost 1446 [ As Td ] [ high card ace -- As,Kc,Td,9c,7h ]

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
400/800 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:38:29 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (2892)
Seat 9: donate_here (5108)
LaggyLou posts small blind (200)
donate_here posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ Tc, 9d ]
LaggyLou raises (2692) to 2892
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here calls (2492)
Creating Main Pot with $5784 with LaggyLou
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ah, 5c, Th ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jc ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 2s ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 5784 |
Board: [ Ah 5c Th Jc 2s ]
LaggyLou balance 5784, bet 2892, collected 5784, net +2892 [ Tc 9d ] [ a pair of tens -- Ah,Jc,Tc,Th,9d ]
donate_here balance 2216, lost 2892 [ Kh 8s ] [ high card ace -- Ah,Kh,Jc,Th,8s ]

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
400/800 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:38:44 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (5784)
Seat 9: donate_here (2216)
donate_here posts small blind (200)
LaggyLou posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 3s, 4s ]
donate_here raises (2016) to 2216
donate_here is all-In.
LaggyLou folds.
Creating Main Pot with $2616 with donate_here
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2616
LaggyLou balance 5384, lost 400 (folded)
donate_here balance 2616, bet 2216, collected 2616, net +400

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
400/800 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:38:56 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (5384)
Seat 9: donate_here (2616)
LaggyLou posts small blind (200)
donate_here posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ Ts, 8c ]
LaggyLou raises (5184) to 5384
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here calls (2216)
donate_here is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $5232 with donate_here
Creating Side Pot 1 with $2768 with LaggyLou
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 6s, 2d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 3s ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 5232 | Side Pot 1: 2768
Board: [ Tc 6s 2d 4d 3s ]
LaggyLou balance 8000, bet 5384, collected 8000, net +2616 [ Ts 8c ] [ a pair of tens -- Ts,Tc,8c,6s,4d ]
donate_here balance 0, lost 2616 [ 2h Kc ] [ a pair of twos -- Kc,Tc,6s,2h,2d ]

[Raiser]

There are a couple of hands in there where you call the big stack's min-raise from the BB (once with 92o and once with Q4o). It seems like if you are going to play these hands you should just push over the top. Calling feels like chip bleeding.

Thoughts?

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
There are a couple of hands in there where you call the big stack's min-raise from the BB (once with 92o and once with Q4o). It seems like if you are going to play these hands you should just push over the top. Calling feels like chip bleeding.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the BB with Q4 I have to call 300 into a T1020 pot. Yes it's a big chunk of my stack but give the situation (i.e., shortstack is all in) I am folding unless I hit the flop and so I think it is worth the call.

the 92s hand was pure desparation. I had about t1000 after posting and, I figured, essentially no pre-flop fold equity. That is why I decided to play it. Having decided to play it, I figured that a pre-flop push would certainly be called but that I might have some fold equity if he wiffed on the flop (obviously I was wrong), so I chose to do the stop-and-go.

I'm not saying that either of those two decisions were correct (I still like the first decision, though), but I thought I'd explain what I was thinking.

[Nottom]

I knew exactly what you were thinking in both hands, I just don't agree with it. Neither of them are super terrible, but I think they are both clearly -EV.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
There are a couple of hands in there where you call the big stack's min-raise from the BB (once with 92o and once with Q4o). It seems like if you are going to play these hands you should just push over the top. Calling feels like chip bleeding.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't like either of those hands either. I think I prefer a stop-n-go to a push, but I think folding is better than either choice. Everything else seems fine.

[1C5]

***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:37:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1746)
Seat 9: donate_here (6134)
Seat 10: king2006 (120)
king2006 posts small blind (120)
LaggyLou posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ Qs, 4d ]
donate_here raises (600) to 600
king2006 is all-In.
LaggyLou calls (300)
Creating Main Pot with $360 with king2006
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, 8s, Th ]
LaggyLou checks.
donate_here bets (1320)
LaggyLou folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kc ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4c ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 360 | Side Pot 1: 2280
Board: [ Ac 8s Th Kc 4c ]
LaggyLou balance 1146, lost 600 (folded)
donate_here balance 6854, bet 1920, collected 2640, net +720 [ As 2d ] [ a pair of aces -- As,Ac,Kc,Th,8s ]
king2006 balance 0, lost 120 [ 6s 2h ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Kc,Th,8s,6s ]

Don't call this raise^^^^


***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
400/800 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:38:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 2
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1446)
Seat 9: donate_here (6554)
donate_here posts small blind (200)
LaggyLou posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 2d, 9d ]
donate_here raises (600) to 800
LaggyLou calls (400)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6h, Kc, 7h ]
LaggyLou bets (646)
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here calls (646)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ]
Creating Main Pot with $2892 with LaggyLou
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2892 |
Board: [ 6h Kc 7h 3h 9c ]
LaggyLou balance 2892, bet 1446, collected 2892, net +1446 [ 2d 9d ] [ a pair of nines -- Kc,9d,9c,7h,6h ]
donate_here balance 5108, lost 1446 [ As Td ] [ high card ace -- As,Kc,Td,9c,7h ]


What are you thinking here, calling a raise with 2,9? That is about the worst play you could make.

[hummusx]

No one else thought the initial push with AT was extreme? Do you think donate_here would have pushed over the top of a T900 raise with K4? Would you have considerably less FE than pushing?

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
No one else thought the initial push with AT was extreme? Do you think donate_here would have pushed over the top of a T900 raise with K4? Would you have considerably less FE than pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't understand the questions. If I raise to 900 and he pushes I believe I have to call. If that's the case then aren't I better off by just pushing first? Note that he has just under 10BBs.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
No one else thought the initial push with AT was extreme? Do you think donate_here would have pushed over the top of a T900 raise with K4? Would you have considerably less FE than pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest remaining stack other than you is less than 10BBs, so its just the 10BB rule in effect. Its not really a pre-flop raise you are worried about here since you will obviously call. I don't want to deal with someone calling the raise and pushing the flop.

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
***** Hand History for Game XXXX *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament XXXX) - Wed Apr 06 23:36:59 EDT 2005
Table Table 11099 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 8: LaggyLou (1446)
Seat 9: donate_here (6134)
Seat 10: king2006 (420)
LaggyLou posts small blind (150)
donate_here posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LaggyLou [ 7h, Tc ]
king2006 folds.
LaggyLou raises (1296) to 1446
LaggyLou is all-In.
donate_here folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1746 with LaggyLou
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1746
LaggyLou balance 1746, bet 1446, collected 1746, net +300
donate_here balance 5834, lost 300 (folded)
king2006 balance 420, didn't bet (folded)

[/ QUOTE ]

after he's just shown he's willing to call an all-in from the big stack with K2s, i fold here. too passive?