Pocket Sevens on the Button = Calling Fun!

[Azhrarn]

This hand left me dissatisfied. Every street I considered raising, and then decided against it. Where would you raise?

SB is an unknown, UTG+1 is loose-passive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[Argus]

Raise the turn or river. You're ahead here a lot of the time, but SB might have 88-TT. I prefer to raise the turn - you'd rather charge potential draws before it gets there rather than having them fold on the river if they miss. If you're 3-bet on the turn you can fold; if SB stop and goes the river I'd just call.

[Megenoita]

No raise the flop??

[BigEndian]

You have an extremely tenuous hand, you need to get your bets in while you know you have value to do so.

- Jim

[Argus]

I think because your hand is tenous you can do better waiting until the turn to see if that value is going to materialise for you. I don't have my copy of SSH handy (lent it out), but I see this similar to the example of waiting until the turn to raise with pocket tens. With the pocket aces you want to raise the flop, but with the smaller pair you'd rather raise a safe turn. Why wouldn't this theory apply to this situation?

[Megenoita]

I don't think this situation is the same as the TT hand in SSHE pp. 185-190.

The section starts out saying:

"Normally, if you determine that you have an edge, you should exploit it by betting or raising. The larger your edge, the more important it is to push. When your edge is small, however, you do not lose much if you pass on it. While you should not pass up small edges for no reason at all, consider passing on a small edge if doing so might allow you to better exploit a much larger edge later on in the hand."

With the TT situation, there were many in the pot and you had to dodge a lot of cards, and the pot was really big. If you got a favorable turn card, your equity shot up significantly. In this case, you have a larger edge on the flop, equity to push immediately. I see this is a clear flop raise, but am interested to hear if others think you should definitely forego the flop raise for a turn raise. I would like to hear more for both sides.

M

[CallMeIshmael]

I wont chime in either way as to what I think of the flop call... BUT...

[ QUOTE ]
With the TT situation, there were many in the pot and you had to dodge a lot of cards, and the pot was really big. If you got a favorable turn card, your equity shot up significantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are all true here.

(the pot isnt big, per se, but it is medium, and with all that calling, seems destined for big)

[BigEndian]

Small pot.

- Jim

[Pil Sung Do]

I think because your hand is tenous you can do better waiting until the turn to see if that value is going to materialise for you.

What card has to come for you to see value in betting?

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
I think because your hand is tenous you can do better waiting until the turn to see if that value is going to materialise for you.

What card has to come for you to see value in betting?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not an ace or spade. But I thought about this hand all afternoon, and I decided that Big Endian et al are right. It is better to raise the flop. Two things convinced me: the small pot, and the huge likelihood that hero is ahead. I first considered his edge moderate, but I think it's really big and not worth passing up for the turn.