Bad play or bad beat?

Maurader1 · #1 03-23-2005, 05:27 AM

Should I have checked the river?
Comments on all streets definitely needed and welcome

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

yellowjack · #2 03-23-2005, 05:37 AM

Fold preflop.
Good 3-bet on the flop.
Good bet on the turn.
Good bet out on the river, you're unlucky that he caught it.

One might say that QJ is the only logical hand MP2 is calling down with from the flop, but we don't know what type of player MP2 is. Anyways we know that button is calling us down anyways, so we need to bet.

MP2 only made a mistake by open-limping preflop, the rest of the streets were played fine. It's not a bad beat because he had the pot equity from the flop to call it down.

He did have QJ, right? 99 is definitely a bad beat while K9 is getting stupid and lucky.

Maurader1 · #3 03-23-2005, 05:45 AM

Indeed, QJ...but I'm not sure why his call on the turn was correct?

yellowjack · #4 03-23-2005, 05:52 AM

There's 9.5 BB in the pot, and it's 1 BB to him to call and make his straight on the river. So if there's at least a 1 in 9.5 chance of winning the pot, he should call. This is about 10.5%

His chance of making the straight on the river is 8 (outs) divided by 46 (cards left in deck) = 17.4%

So he is getting good odds for his straight. Had the pot been smaller, he might not be getting the correct odds but he has. At the same time, you don't want to keep the pot small because you have the best hand. You both played your cards and you got the short end of the stick.

I'm sure there are different conventions of writing odds used on this forum that are more common, but if you understand this then it's ok.

The Chris · #5 03-23-2005, 09:47 AM

Yea at the end theres around 24BB in the pot to his 3.2:1 odds off the flop so he'll make the hand 1 in 4 hands. According to Lee Jones, author of the great book "Winning Low-Limit Holdem" says to raise as much as possible and call as many raises as possible on the flop to give you the correct odds on the river. Two pair should be played aggressively, but if you're getting all these raises and calls, you should have slowed a little, since it wasnt top 2 pair.

bottomset · #6 03-23-2005, 09:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Indeed, QJ...but I'm not sure why his call on the turn was correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

between this thread and the KQo one, I'm positive you are out of your league right now at 1/2 .. drop to .5/1 or lower

get a copy of Small Stakes Hold Em, spend time reading and responding to threads here

as for this hand, getting 7/1 on the call its fine,
checkraise the flop

jrz1972 · #7 03-23-2005, 10:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
between this thread and the KQo one, I'm positive you are out of your league right now at 1/2 ..

[/ QUOTE ]

I second this. You're going to get crushed at 1/2 if you haven't mastered the basics of the game yet.

Maurader1 · #8 03-23-2005, 01:48 PM

Definitely agree with you after looking at hands from yesterday - I've no idea what I am doing... :P Will read SSH a second time and keep reading posts here

Thanks!

Dave G. · #9 03-23-2005, 05:41 AM

The only thing that looks suspect to me is the preflop call. K6s isn't a great hand to play against a raise even from the BB (knowing something about buttons raising standards could help this decision, though). I don't think there are enough people in the pot to make me want to play this one.

Other than that you played it well. Definitely bet the river, worse hands will call you.

Abelardo · #10 03-23-2005, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that looks suspect to me is the preflop call. K6s isn't a great hand to play against a raise even from the BB (knowing something about buttons raising standards could help this decision, though). I don't think there are enough people in the pot to make me want to play this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many people you need to have to play against a rise on the BB with suited crap? I'm thinking I might call if there were about 4 other players coming along. And with wich hands do you call? K6s might not be a good hand but it looks like premium compared to say 93s. I ask because I often call in this spot, and if it's a leak I would like to fix it.

Abelardo