Strategies against players who don't give a damn.

johnc · #1 03-21-2005, 03:20 PM

Ran headlong into a very LGP couple nights ago who MO was to cap about 30% of the pf hands he was in, posted live straddles every opportunity, and only folded when he was incredibly behind, but never to aggression per se. These types have put a serious dent in my bankroll lately and have considered moving up to a higher limit where the play is more sane. What are your opinions?

axioma · #2 03-21-2005, 03:34 PM

my opinion is that if you are struggling to beat an obviously very poor opponent, you would be worse off against better opposition.

no offence meant by this, but that attitude is a very irrational one (although also very common).

your variance in a game with a player that you describe may be higher, but so will your win rate over time, once you adapt to his play.

johnc · #3 03-21-2005, 03:55 PM

But how? Have tried tightening up, loosening up, with no real success. I'm get good draws, making them pay heavily to stick around, make them only to get sucked out ie, got my king high straight (flopped) beat by one these types who paired the board 3 and showed down his 93o for a boat!! I know this sounds like the typical bad beat whine but what can you do? They don't respect raises and raising for value can only go so far when you obviously have the nuts and they still hang around. I'm just out of answers.

Allinlife · #4 03-21-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But how? Have tried tightening up, loosening up, with no real success. I'm get good draws, making them pay heavily to stick around, make them only to get sucked out ie, got my king high straight (flopped) beat by one these types who paired the board 3 and showed down his 93o for a boat!! I know this sounds like the typical bad beat whine but what can you do? They don't respect raises and raising for value can only go so far when you obviously have the nuts and they still hang around. I'm just out of answers.

[/ QUOTE ]
lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong rUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN

Goodnews · #5 03-21-2005, 04:33 PM

Alright, since you have such a problem with having the other player sticking around, heres what you do...

Next time you have AA, put it face up, and convince him to play with you.

I hope you enjoy the antes and blinds.

sjb · #6 03-21-2005, 04:54 PM

The odds of your flopped king-high straight getting beaten by a 93o are pretty ridiculous - assuming the 9 you used was on the board (you said you're playing tight), he's got a pair of 9s, something like a hundred to one against improving to a boat or better, maybe a little more to improve to a flush.

If he's staying in when the pot isn't paying him 100:1, let him. All you can really do is ride out the roller coaster - because the pots are all so big, a bad beat is expensive. But the wins are more frequent and just as big.

Don't count the pots you win. Count the chips.

callydrias · #7 03-21-2005, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...and raising for value can only go so far when you obviously have the nuts and they still hang around.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize how ridiculous this sounds, don't you?

johnc · #8 03-21-2005, 10:03 PM

I implied that the maniac knew I held the best hand at that point (due to my aggression and his reaction) but stuck around with his longshot anyways.

dr_venkman · #9 03-21-2005, 04:00 PM

Good advice. I started on the $0.01/$0.02 NL tables on Poker Stars. Those tables are pretty much the same as the play money tables, but I learned how to adjust my play accordingly until I was coming out ahead every time I sat down. Then I moved up a level and adjusted again. Moved up and adjusted.

Now I'm doing well on the $50 buy ins and don't plan on going anywhere until I satisfactorily feel that I am dominating this level. When I do, I'll move up and adjust.

I don't want to be a star, I just want to make money. Imagine a game of baseball and you're trying to make the major leagues. You come upon a pitcher who keeps throwing them by you leaving you to swing at air. He throws sliders and fastballs and knuckleballs, changing them up so often you're totally confused. You have two choices, throw your hands in the air and give up, or if you're serious about getting better then you have only once choice... practice until dark every night.

Finding another pitcher isn't the answer; learning how to hit his crazy pitches is. That's the only way to get better.

Good luck

Gbob · #10 03-21-2005, 04:15 PM

Two factors are killing you.

The first one you nailed. Pots are won by forcing the other person off the pot and having better cards. If you can't force them off, you'll lose more hands. The bright side is that if you play the odds and play the cards you'll win more over all.

The next factor is that it's easy against this kind of foe to delude yourself into thinking he never has any good cards. You'll see TPTK and think to yourself that it has to be good because odds are he's not holding crap. You'll put a bunch of money into the pot and wind up paying him off. You'll dwell to much on the bad beats and it'll put you on tilt.

The sad fact is the only way to beat this guy is to wait and play good cards. When the odds are on your side, play it and don't get wrapped up in the bad beats you will take. Over the course of the evening your stack will grow and his will dwindle. Collecting chips is the best revenge.

Position is key against these players. Don't get agressive against him untill the end of the hand. He'll be in no matter what. Let him bet into you and only stay in when you have the nuts.