AQs flops flush draw against a big field

Dave G. · #1 03-14-2005, 09:54 AM

I had a nice big field of limpers for this hand. The table seems like a typical .5/1 table, maybe a little tighter than usual, but not this time. What's my play like here?

What about the turn? Do I check/call or lead out?

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero...?

sublime · #2 03-14-2005, 09:58 AM

bet the flop

you also have some value on the turn, so bet.

cdy · #3 03-14-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bet the flop

you also have some value on the turn, so bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many callers do you need to have in order for their to be value in this turn bet? At least four?

Dave G. · #4 03-14-2005, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bet the flop

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My reason for not betting the flop was to try and keep people in the hand. I don't mind if they draw, because my draw will beat all of theirs. As the preflop raiser don't I risk driving people out? If a LP player is the first to bet, I'll just call. A check-raise seemed like a nice way to build a big pot and tie people to it. Is this incorrect?

[ QUOTE ]
you are going to win this hand about around 25% of the time, you have 5 opponents who dont seem to mind calling bets. so bet for the slight value edge.

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Definitely bet this turn. If everybody calls, that's fine since you'll be getting value for your flush draw. On the other hand, a turn bet might also fold out some hands like A3 that have you reverse-dominated, thus clearing up your overcard outs.

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Ah thankyou both for the insights. This makes a lot of sense. As it happened, I checked, and it got checked through. I realised that was A Bad Thing but wanted to make sure.

riffraff · #5 03-14-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My reason for not betting the flop was to try and keep people in the hand. I don't mind if they draw, because my draw will beat all of theirs. As the preflop raiser don't I risk driving people out? If a LP player is the first to bet, I'll just call. A check-raise seemed like a nice way to build a big pot and tie people to it. Is this incorrect?

[/ QUOTE ]

Building a big pot is a great idea here. You are drawing to the nuts and are a favorite vs top pair (even JJ) to win the hand at this point. That said since you raised in the SB you should lead out here almost every time.

cdy · #6 03-14-2005, 09:58 AM

This is a definite check on the turn. YOu don't have the same equity edge on the turn as you did on the flop. I would just call down to see the river, unless it is checked to one of the last two players, in which case I would raise again, making it two bets back to the rest of the field and possibly giving you an extra out to an A or Q. There is not much value/purpose in leading this turn unless you actually think you're going to knock one or two people out.

sublime · #7 03-14-2005, 10:00 AM

There is not much value/purpose in leading this turn unless you actually think you're going to knock one or two people out.

you are going to win this hand about around 25% of the time, you have 5 opponents who dont seem to mind calling bets. so bet for the slight value edge.

jrz1972 · #8 03-14-2005, 10:02 AM

Definitely bet this turn. If everybody calls, that's fine since you'll be getting value for your flush draw. On the other hand, a turn bet might also fold out some hands like A3 that have you reverse-dominated, thus clearing up your overcard outs.

btspider · #9 03-14-2005, 10:25 AM

another one.

attention all micro posters. stop trying to check-raise the flop with your big hands after you raise PF.

Dave G. · #10 03-14-2005, 10:50 AM

Okay, point taken. No more flop check-raising after raising PF. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Here's the entire hand.

Absolute Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (12.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP2 raises, CO folds, Button folds, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB doesn't show.
MP2 has 5s 5d (straight, seven high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 16.75 BB.