Aggressive suckouts still tilt me...

elbuddha · #1 03-13-2005, 06:47 PM

This has happened to me a couple dozen of times, always from otherwise passive opponents, not LAGs. I still don't understand it, and it still tilts me every time without fail - to the point where I will leave the table immediately when it happens.

I don't mean this as a beat post, rather a sanity check. If I can keep my cool enough to stay at the table, how do I deal with a player who has done this? Seems it would be next to impossible to ever put him on a hand again.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Js Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
MP1 has 3c 5h (straight, eight high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 16.25 BB.

toss · #2 03-13-2005, 06:49 PM

You played this hand fine. You probably already know this, but you should be happy he called you all the way to the river with his crappy gutshot. After you "suffer" another one of these suckouts just think, "I may have lost the pot, but I sure have a lot of Sklansky bucks!"

dark_horse · #3 03-13-2005, 07:04 PM

congratulate him on his good play and do everything you can to keep him at the table. never insult him. and if others insult him, defend him.

chapstick · #4 03-13-2005, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
congratulate him on his good play and do everything you can to keep him at the table. never insult him. and if others insult him, defend him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just a poker junior, but that sounds like great advice!

DoctorDrew · #5 03-13-2005, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
congratulate him on his good play and do everything you can to keep him at the table. never insult him. and if others insult him, defend him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm halfway there. I have learned to say nothing. But, since I never say anything anyway that's no change. I can't yet bring myself to congratulate someone after this. I will put them on my buddy list tho'

Zoelef · #6 03-13-2005, 07:06 PM

MP1 -> Buddy List.

That being said, since the river card completes a flush draw as well as the gutshot, you could make a case for check/calling, but I think that's a bit weak.

Pharity · #7 03-13-2005, 10:32 PM

Yes to c/c the river would be too weak, its a value bet IMO.

And i would c/r the turn instead of betting out.

Nh, MP1 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

jskills · #8 03-13-2005, 07:14 PM

I think the villan in your example is a Party Poker employee - why else would he cap the flop?

Seriously, this person is obviously a LAG. To the passives in this situation, they're just calling all the way, not reraising and when they suck out, I say "nh" and usually they say "ty" believing it was a nice hand. Good, keep playing that way.

With LAGs, I too find it harder to control myself, but I say nothing at all. I then lay in wait until he raises preflop and I get any kind of decent hand and then raise back to isolate. If I connect with the flop, then it's off to the races betting as much as possible and hopefully taking him down. It usually ends up working out being very profitable ...

Ivanapolis · #9 03-13-2005, 07:47 PM

That's nothing! It is just another gutshot straight and these guys are the reason you can win money. But if such beats happen in a row they are of course very frustrating. But it is "NORMAL" play for average 0,50/1,-- partypoker-opponents to call with the gutshot straight, even if there are a flush or a higher straight possible, or the board has paired. Very bad play of course.
If you play many low limit games you will have real unbelieveable bad beats - e.g. I lost with the TT on a flop of T88 agaist a player with Q7 who always raised to cap [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] (Q on turn and Q on river) or with the AK on a flop of AAT agaist a guy with the 76 (8 on turn and 9 on river) - if this is combined with some other ugly games it is for myself still necessary to have something cheap in my near, that can be smashed. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

elbuddha · #10 03-13-2005, 08:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But it is "NORMAL" play for average 0,50/1,-- partypoker-opponents to call with the gutshot straight

[/ QUOTE ]
Normal, and welcome.

It's the capping of the flop with nothing but a gutshot that is not normal. I know I should welcome it as well, but instead I find it immensely frustrating. Of course, all the times when they don't hit I just have all the more of their money and am none the wiser.

My question really had to do with how to treat an opponent who I've seen do this, especially one whom I've otherwise noted to be passive. I guess the answer is to label them a LAG and treat them as such.