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#1
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flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter
UTG ($83) UTG+1 ($156.60) MP1 ($114.15) MP2 ($150) MP3 ($292.55) CO ($234.25) Hero ($232.85) SB ($181.70) BB ($242.90) Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>. Flop: ($15) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $150</font>, MP1 folds. Final Pot: $185 Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> No showdown. Hero wins $185. </font> Any thoughts here? Dealing with shortstacks, my strategy is normally to make them commit most of their chips then push. Do I wait till the turn to extract more money? I wasn't sure what his bet indicated... had no reads on the individual. I'm not sure what hand villian could have that I could have extracted more money from by just calling his reraise on the flop except overcards.. and I'm not sure he'd even follow through with the bluff on the turn (esp if a club, 5, 9, or T falls). VS set pushing is the right move. Vs overpair.. maybe the right move? As mentioned, lots of turn cards kill my action but the villian might be overcommitted even when a scary card falls. Did I possibly force an overpair to fold? What is missing from my analysis? How would you play it? All comments appreciated |
#2
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
I think that making it 60 to go would be fine. You might get him to continue to overplay an overpair.
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#3
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
I think I underestimated his short-stack-ed-ness. I thought he started with 80 at the beginning of the hand. Even though he has a decent stack, wouldn't asking him to put 60 in on the flop be basically pushing? That's why i resorted to it, but I guess i should reserve that for times I want to put pressure on them.. I wouldn't think any half-way decent player would commit half their stack on the flop without being ready to go the whole distance.
However, I'm amazed how often people call big bets OOP and fold on later streets, as if they think their opponent will just check behind after they check. Anyway, i digress, do you think overpair lays down to my play and stays around for your suggestion? |
#4
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
It depends on the player. Some will die with overpairs, other's will find every reason to fold them. I saw a guy call 8/9 of his stack PF and then fold on the flop once. It was funny. Maybe 50 straight would be better because that's like half of his stack. It also gives him the oppurtunity to push his [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]'s.
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#5
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
i like a flat call there. villain is short enough that if he bets the turn, he'll have a lot of his stack in the middle, and you might get a crying call if you push the turn. TT+ is probably going to wind up all-in unless an A hits if you let him bet the turn, and not 3-betting gives AK a chance to pick up a pair (or continue bluffing).
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#6
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
Your bet is way too big. You want to raise the size of the pot...something he might call. You are extracting no value here. Raise, he'll hopefully call, then you make another big bet on the turn. You are only realistically scared of a flush draw. Any single pair or overpair is drawing to a runner runner full house. You don't want to run them off just yet unless you really think they will call here. Not even the worst party fish is calling that overbet unless then have a set, and even then they might fold a set that isn't 10s. He probably has a 10 here, and you ran him off drawing almost completely dead.
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#7
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
Not sure a reraise is of any value here honestly except allin. Is the play meant to show more weakness enticing them to call? no.. the flatcall does. Reraising here is basically committing him to the pot so why not get it over with before the scary turn cards?
Am i missing something in my analysis? cause there was no part of me that was thinking about putting in a baby reraise after he did that. |
#8
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
i agree that if you reraise, it should be a push. if you had overs + flush draw with something like AQs, you would not be screwing around with a small reraise. pushing lets him talk himself into a call with JJ or something (if he's decent. if he's horrible, then milking him along can work).
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#9
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
yea the more I think about the situation the more I believe he was horrible and not decent. The min reraise was a horrible play on his part and does nothing. At the same time it baffled me to his holding, but in retrospect he probably had overs. Its just that I've seen newbies do this move all the time with a set or AA/KK.. as a resteal attempt (my original bet was meant to look steal-ish), it was horribly weak and wouldn't accomplish anything. Bah, I have no idea how to pin down his hand.. damn random newbie moves.
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#10
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Re: flopping the nuts HU: slowplay or not?
[ QUOTE ]
Your bet is way too big. You want to raise the size of the pot...something he might call. You are extracting no value here. Raise, he'll hopefully call, then you make another big bet on the turn. You are only realistically scared of a flush draw. Any single pair or overpair is drawing to a runner runner full house. You don't want to run them off just yet unless you really think they will call here. Not even the worst party fish is calling that overbet unless then have a set, and even then they might fold a set that isn't 10s. He probably has a 10 here, and you ran him off drawing almost completely dead. [/ QUOTE ] raising the pot would be to make it 75 (a call brings the pot to 20+20+15 = 55, so raising the pot would be 20+55 = 75). villain started the hand with 110. |
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