AA hand - 2 maniacs - enormous pot

Hojglad · #1 02-27-2005, 02:14 AM

In this hand, the guy that called three cold right after me preflop and the guy that acts immediately before me are both absolute maniacs.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (18.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (34.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 50.75 BB

I hate the way I played the turn. I hate the way I played the river. I couldn't fold either. I had odds to draw to my set the whole way through. I had seen the guy who acted before me push bottom pair the same way he was doing it this hand. Does anyone play this any differently? I tried to slow down, but the maniacs wouldn't let me. No way I could let go either. No flush on the board. No reasonable straight draw. Just two absolute maniacs against my top pair.

By the turn, I was disgusted. I wanted to fold SO badly. I called anyway though. On the river, I really wanted to fold, but there was no way I was going to give up a chance at a 50BB pot. Any advice is appreciated.

Firefly · #2 02-27-2005, 02:16 AM

Given those reads, You have to play it the same way. Folding in this pot would be criminal. Make sure those reads are solid though/

bigmac366 · #3 02-27-2005, 02:17 AM

against maniacs, you have to call down, if they have a ragged two pair so bet it, but you cannot fold.

Shillx · #4 02-27-2005, 02:18 AM

Honestly I would get in there and cap every street if the maniacs are the only ones showing aggression. If some loose passive dude is in there raising, you have to be much more careful but you found a hand preflop and you have to dance with the lady that brung you. You are up against pretty much 2 random hands and you will drag this baby a good % of the time. It is super high varience but the rewards (as you can see) are great. Think of it as shoving your entire stack in with AA at a NL and getting called by 2 random hands. You won't always win but you gotta like the spot you are in.

Brad

zuluking · #5 02-27-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly I would get in there and cap every street if the maniacs are the only ones showing aggression. If some loose passive dude is in there raising, you have to be much more careful but you found a hand preflop and you have to dance with the lady that brung you. You are up against pretty 2 random hands and you will drag this baby a good % of the time. It is super high varience but the rewards (as you can see) are great. Think of it as shoving your entire stack in with AA at a NL and getting called by 2 random hands. You won't always win but you gotta like the spot you are in.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, you beat me to it.

Hojglad · #6 02-27-2005, 02:24 AM

Well, at least the general sentiment so far is that I played it right. Maybe I'm being weak tight, but I still think I should have folded the river. I just can't really see much that I'm ahead of. Maniac or no maniac. There's just too much damned aggression.

bigmac366 · #7 02-27-2005, 02:51 AM

i used to think like that, until i saw a maniac cap the river with jack high against my aces full.

graarrg · #8 02-27-2005, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i used to think like that, until i saw a maniac cap the river with jack high against my aces full.

[/ QUOTE ]

amen to that. one time, the board was paired and I hesitated on my nut flush, so I only called a 3-bet on the river.. the guy turns up cards as unrelated to the board as possible. Playing online is all about no fear.

sweetjazz · #9 02-27-2005, 04:31 AM

With the board as it is, I think you win over 50% of the time here. Given your reads, folding at any point in this hand would be a HUGE mistake.

Tonight, I saw a guy raise the flop, cap the turn and river on a flop of QQQ with 42 in his hand. Surprisingly enough, he wasn't able to get Q7 to fold his hand at any point. I suspect his thinking (if you want to call it that) was that he wanted to knock everyone out if nobody filled up by the river. Notice that the biggest mistake would be calling him down to the river looking to fill up and folding on the river unimproved. (This is assuming that nobody else is raising, as obviously happened when Mr. Flopped Quads came to life.)

When people get real maniacal, you often have to decide early in the hand (preflop or on the flop) whether you want to continue and then see things to the bloody end. The reason being that the pot is so bloated and the probability that the maniac has garbage is so high that it's a mistake to fold. There are some maniacs who I would 3-bet with Ah 2d and call down on a Kc Qc 9c board. This is an extreme, but I mention to illustrate how radically you have to adjust your play to a maniac. (Contrast this with the fact that I will raise preflop with Ac Kd and sometimes fold to a single flop bet on a 7c 2d 2c board from a sufficiently passive player.) You *must* adjust to the range of hands that your opponent will have when he makes a given action. If someone will ram and jam the board with any draw or any pair or better, then you must accept this fact and decide how best to proceed. (BTW, this knowledge should greatly influence your overall preflop play.)

Brain · #10 02-27-2005, 03:41 AM

No way can you fold this river against two maniacs. You probably still have the best hand and how tilted are you going to get if you fold the best hand? Sometimes you have to call for sanity's sake too. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]