Sklanksy AK hand, let's discuss...

[That guy]

Blinds: $3k/$6k Antes: $1k
Pot Before any Betting: $14k

Stack sizes aren't stated but Sklansky definitely has Cloutier out-chipped by about 2-1. The last time shown, Sklansky has $342k and Cloutier $165k. Since then, neither were involved in any of the televised pots so they are probably something similar.


5-Handed

Sklansky is UTG holding A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Raises $20k.

Pot: $34k

Hellmuth, Caro, Brunson fold

Cloutier in BB holds A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Raises $74k
Pot: $108k

Sklansky has $60k to call. Thinks and folds.

I don't remember ever seeing anyone muck AK on the WPT in any circumstance so this hand is interesting. Clearly, since he won the event, he didn't need it.

comments?

[jojobinks]

senor sklansky's response: what he was thinking

i agree, i've never seen anyone pass on ak preflop in the face of aggression in a wpt event. i hated it at the time, but like it more and more as i think about it.

[toots]

I think it's especially daring. I mean, he had to know how much heat he was going to be taking for it in his own back yard.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's especially daring. I mean, he had to know how much heat he was going to be taking for it in his own back yard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure he factors this in all his decisions.

Its actually in the hidden chaptor of TOP

[That guy]

This situation comes up all the time in my online tourneys.

In TPFAP, in the segment on AK (p 115-119):
"The best time to move in with ace-king is when moving in is betting two to five times the size of the pot."

Since TJ has ~$150k left, with the pot at $94k, Sklansky could move all-in for (150k) / 94 = ~1.6x.

A clarification is needed on the book I think. Is the reference in the book to only times where you are betting 2-5x the size the blinds?? or is it also for times when you have been re-raised?

In this case, TJ has put ~40% of his stack in already... He looks pot-committed. If he has any pair, David will be the underdog but he is getting a little overlay to do it.

Last paragraph of the segment is:
"if you do choose to move in with most of your ace-kings, you are choosing to play a style that can get you broke instantly. That goes against some general precepts of tournament play. So don't do it if you know you are the best player, and your chips are many times the size of the pot."

[wins_pot]

correct play there is to move all-in, end of story. sklansky discusses his reasons for not calling, but not his reasons for not moving all-in. ex ante prob that someone has AA or KK in a six-handed game (my recollection is that it was 6handed at the time) is about 5.5% if you don't hold AK,more like 3.5% if you do. connditional on TJ reraising a tight player (david), the prob that he has AA or KK is in the 5-15% range. Against KK, david is a 7 to 3 dog, against aces he's obviously bad off.
my estimates are
7% he has aces. you're in bad shape
7% he has kings. you're 30%
20% has has AK. split it up
20% has has AQ. you're 75% or so
66% he has a pair, QQ or lower. here you're a dog, but since you still have a health stack if you lose, you call on pot odds.
i push here.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
correct play there is to move all-in, end of story. sklansky discusses his reasons for not calling, but not his reasons for not moving all-in. ex ante prob that someone has AA or KK in a six-handed game (my recollection is that it was 6handed at the time) is about 5.5% if you don't hold AK,more like 3.5% if you do. connditional on TJ reraising a tight player (david), the prob that he has AA or KK is in the 5-15% range. Against KK, david is a 7 to 3 dog, against aces he's obviously bad off.
my estimates are
7% he has aces. you're in bad shape
7% he has kings. you're 30%
20% has has AK. split it up
20% has has AQ. you're 75% or so
66% he has a pair, QQ or lower. here you're a dog, but since you still have a health stack if you lose, you call on pot odds.
i push here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have failed to consider quite a few things. Number one is the chips that David would have lost if he lost the hand. It happens that TJ happened to have the one and only holding with which you wanted him to have which is AQ. Even if TJ has QQ or any pocket pair below that and pot odds warrant a call (which is correct). Pot odds do not speak to the fact that you may lose the hand and lose half your stack. There is something to be said for passing up small edges. However, keep in mind, AK does not have a small edge against any other pocket pair, it's a small dog. TJ just happened to have the one and probably only one hand that TJ would play in this manner in which David had a huge edge.

BTW, just b/c we haven't seen anyone lay down AK pre-flop in any WPT event doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Remember, these shows represent an hour and a half or so or what is sometimes 6-7 hours worth of live action.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, just b/c we haven't seen anyone lay down AK pre-flop in any WPT event doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Remember, these shows represent an hour and a half or so or what is sometimes 6-7 hours worth of live action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you're refering to WPT final table action, but in the only WPT event that I ever played in, I folded AK after a big reraise.

I didn't have any chips all day in this tourney and suddenly when on a little streak and after a big hand against Huck Seed found myself with about 23K. The blinds were 500/1000 and I raised to 3000 with AK UTG.

Mark Seif was UTG2 and he re-raised me 9K more to 12K. Mark had just been moved to our table and during some table talk I overheard him tell another player that he had acquired his big stack which was about 40K through stealing.

I thought at the time that he said this to try and get action with his big hands. Anyway, it was back to me, and my read was that he had a big hand and I mucked my AK.

I thought that I probably made a good play until he told me that I made a good laydown, that he had KK. So I probably got outplayed on the hand, but yes at least one other has laid down AK in a WPT event. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Shaun]

He couldn't win the tournament on that hand, and let's face it, when TJ Cloutier is re-raising me and I'm David Sklansky and hold AK, there is exactly ONE hand I am ahead of. You have a mere 20k invested, so why not let it go and wait until you're certain you're ahead.

I knew the commentators would have a cow about this laydown because, like someone said, no one ever folds AK on the WPT. Notice how he got much of that 20k back with 78s on the next televised hand against the same player by making a raise.

[Beavis68]

I don't think Dan Harrington would have folded............