$15/$30 Party. CR flop - good move?

innebandy · #1 02-16-2005, 08:56 PM

Trying to protect a weak hand against large fields with flop check-raise. Thoughts? The right move? Foolish?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $15.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) calls, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises

Toddster18 · #2 02-17-2005, 01:58 AM

Protecting? I think not. If it was the cutoff who raised preflop, I would like the line. You could hope it got checked to him, he would bet, you could raise, and face the field with 2 bets. The way it is, you aren't changing much except possibly getting rid of UTG+2's big cards.

To be honest, though. I dont like this situation/board either. There aren't a whole lot of turn cards I like. I probably just try to quickly and cheaply get to showdown.

-Todd

innebandy · #3 02-18-2005, 03:34 AM

Yeah, I didn't feel good about the flop, especially since I din't have the pre-flop raiser either on my immediate left or right, and checked it to see how the hand would develop. When the pre-flop raiser checked and I only a bet and a call on my right I thought I'd take a stab at it and try to limit the field.

Obviously, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea - hence the post. I haven't caught up on the whole thread yet, but it seems like the consensus so far is that this is not the preferred line.

[ QUOTE ]
Protecting? I think not. If it was the cutoff who raised preflop, I would like the line. You could hope it got checked to him, he would bet, you could raise, and face the field with 2 bets. The way it is, you aren't changing much except possibly getting rid of UTG+2's big cards.

To be honest, though. I dont like this situation/board either. There aren't a whole lot of turn cards I like. I probably just try to quickly and cheaply get to showdown.

-Todd

[/ QUOTE ]

amulet · #4 02-17-2005, 02:15 AM

i think the call preflop is incorrect. your less then 6% to make a flush by the river. hands like JTs, T9S, etc., give you more ways to win and calling would be correct. here i think the long shot of Q9s vs the pot odds make it incorrect.

on the flop you flopped top pair on a dangerous board vs many opponents one of whom is the preflop raiser. if the player on your right was the post flop bettor, then making it 2 bets to the field might lose people (with this board i think most would stay anyway). however, here the bettor is not the player on your right, so your not losing many players, i think the raise is a mistake if your trying to lose several people. i also think it is a mistake, because even with top pair you are vs a preflop raiser who may have you beat, and a board that says there are several draws out with all those opponents. even if your top pair is best post flop (with this board and all the opponents) i doubt you are a fav to win the hand postflop. plus you may be badly behind a few opponents already.

ActionBob · #5 02-17-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i think the call preflop is incorrect. your less then 6% to make a flush by the river. hands like JTs, T9S, etc., give you more ways to win and calling would be correct. here i think the long shot of Q9s vs the pot odds make it incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt realize there was a qualifier for high hand and that one needs a flush or better to win.

-ActionBob

amulet · #6 02-17-2005, 03:16 PM

bob, i guess you can not help being a jerk, and while your post is not serious, i will respond. no he does not need to hit the flush to win, he can flop 2 pair, a 1 in 28 shot, or the flop could come with 2 Q's or 2 9's, or even QQ9, or he could flop a str8, all very very unlikely. and a Q could flop, however vs a raiser and all these opponents is one pair a Q with a bad kicker good? the point being - he has very few ways to win wit this hand. instead of being constructive, and trying to help people learn you chose to act like an ass, pointless for the people who want to learn, but i am sure you enjoyed it.

MaxPower · #7 02-17-2005, 03:30 PM

amulet,

If you were on the button in a 10 handed game and all 7 people in front of you limped in, would you call with Q9s?

amulet · #8 02-17-2005, 04:05 PM

of course max, who would not call? this is different, pot size is similar, but the raise and position make it very different. and post flop is where you need to be able to get away from it, or play it fast, etc.

ActionBob · #9 02-17-2005, 03:53 PM

My post is at least somewhat serious as your post implied that you will need at least a flush to win this pot. As for flopping one pair, well sure I'm not necessarily doing cartwheels with any one pair flop I get but there are many times I flop a Q or 9 that I can clearly play profitably beyond the flop. YMMV.

-ActionBob

Nightwish · #10 02-17-2005, 05:08 AM

Just out of curiousity, would you mind posting your PT stats? I don't care about your BB/100, just curious about the other stuff.

But let me take a guess: VP$IP = 11.5, PFR = 6.5, WtSD = 28. How close am I?