The one bet river bluff

[J_V]

Can anyone make this work? Here's the spot:

You check-called the flop, check called the turn. Now on the river (you have donk and you can't win a showdown), so you decide to lead bluff. This is a play I rarely make and can't seem to get it to work. I am gonna try it tonight and report back after this session.

I was hoping some of you more formidable one bet river bluffers can give me a hand or two where you made it work. It sometimes works for me in heads up sessions, but that's about it.

[Barry]

Hmm....

It's surprising how many times I take that line with TP and get the bettor to fold the river, so I have done it just a couple of times when I have missed whatever draw that I am on. It's probably worked about 1/3 of the time which is fine by me.

I have usually done it when I have defended a LP openraise and the board is raggy. In such cases the bettor isn't likely to even have an A to showdown.

[glen]

"I have usually done it when I have defended a LP openraise and the board is raggy. In such cases the bettor isn't likely to even have an A to showdown."

so are you checkcalling flop draws on ragged boards against lp raisers? against some opponenets i am sure this line is fine, but i will usually cr the flop with any draw there. but the good thing about that river bet is that it's almost unbluff-raisable - you get called or you don't. . . .

[Barry]

The flop checkraise, at least in the Party 15/30 games in those situations almost always screams a draw, if there is one on the board.

The check/call, check/call, bet line often means a made hand.

So sometimes, yes if I'm planning to take that line once I see the flop, I take that line. And yes if I flop a monster I'll fastplay it as they don't believe me. For example once I had AJ in the BB or something, the flop came KQT, 2 tone and another 2+2'er (and we both knew each other) and I capped the flop and the turn. Yes, I lead the flop. Unfortunately, the flush draw that hung in there the whole time got there on the river. After the hand the 2+2'er was surprised that I played the nuts so fast. He had J9.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop checkraise, at least in the Party 15/30 games in those situations almost always screams a draw, if there is one on the board.

The check/call, check/call, bet line often means a made hand.

So sometimes, yes if I'm planning to take that line once I see the flop, I take that line. And yes if I flop a monster I'll fastplay it as they don't believe me. For example once I had AJ in the BB or something, the flop came KQT, 2 tone and another 2+2'er (and we both knew each other) and I capped the flop and the turn. Yes, I lead the flop. Unfortunately, the flush draw that hung in there the whole time got there on the river. After the hand the 2+2'er was surprised that I played the nuts so fast. He had J9.

[/ QUOTE ]

Barry,

I think you're getting at the paradox here, which is that it's often so profitable in the Party 15/30 to fastplay even a merely decent made hand that your opponent is going to notice that and won't trust you for having a made hand when you suddenly bet into him on the river.

[glen]

the problem with this play is many players will raise you with nothing, just because it is an incredibly suspect play. I raise people so much here with just 2 cards and it works well more than it's share of the time. the times i shy away from raising is when an overcard to the board hits, in which case i will call or fold, depending on the likelihood my opp. is bluffing and whether i have any showdown value. But, " I am gonna try it tonight and report back after this session. " gl with that, can't wait to hear about the probable donation :P. . .

[James282]

The one bet river bluff works much more in a check-raise scenario against a decent player. Example: 2 limpers and I raise AK from the SB, bb folds and it's three-way. The flop is 252 two tone. I bet and only a good player calls. Turn is a 3 no flush. Bet, call. River is a J no flush. I check, he bets, I raise, he thinks forever but folds. Of course the bluff you describe works against some players when you suspect overcards, but it's a dicey situation.
-James

[Stork]

What about check-raising the turn and leading the river? Is that too obvious at higher limits?

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
The one bet river bluff works much more in a check-raise scenario against a decent player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it's a two bet river bluff, isn't it? Clearly a bluff check-raise is more powerful than a bluff lead bet, but I think one of his goals with this play is to minimize the cost.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The one bet river bluff works much more in a check-raise scenario against a decent player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it's a two bet river bluff, isn't it? Clearly a bluff check-raise is more powerful than a bluff lead bet, but I think one of his goals with this play is to minimize the cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, because in a lot of these scenarios you would call to pick off a possible flush draw.
-James